The Original Online BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS FORUM. Advanced Techniques. Pro Tips & Insights. The Best Advice!

As a staunch Blueprint/Ecdy believer/lover/user, how can you explain your results?

I just opened up your first log and found this:

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:42 pm
Squats
135 x 8
185 x 5, 185 x 5, 185 x 2

In your latest log, I now find this entry:

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:27 pm
I took 300mg caffein and some B-6 and B-12 preworkout because I knew I would need a boost.

Squats- 95x5, 135x5, 185x5, 220x5, 220x5, 220x5, 220x3, 220x3

Almost 5 months later and you've made only minor improvements, explain yourself

What's your current height, weight and age if you don't mind my asking? I'll keep this on this board, since I think that's probably most diplomatic.

I think that is pretty significant, it is doubling the amount of weight used in a single workout if I am reading that correctly.

Reps:
35 x 8, 185 x 5, 185 x 5, 185 x 2 = 2500
95x5, 135x5, 185x5, 220x5, 220x5, 220x5, 220x3, 220x3=6695

OnFire, please re-visit your "calling out" intent... we're not nolinksplease.com, you know

Now I don't mind productive discourse/differing views. That's healthy and we have that around here. MSR has some very legit reasons for apparent non-linear progress, including swinging from an all out bulk to a cut. And as mentioned here, his progress was still substantial in that respect.

So, I think you'll find there are very good logical reasons for your findings. It just takes some productive discussion.

Wow, when I first read this last night I assumed it would have been deleted. Yeah, this forum is all about the positive here man... Any gain is a good gain. Be joyous for thy brothers successes, and aid him through his disappointments!

RobRegish wrote:OnFire, please re-visit your "calling out" intent... we're not nolinksplease.com, you know

Now I don't mind productive discourse/differing views. That's healthy and we have that around here. MSR has some very legit reasons for apparent non-linear progress, including swinging from an all out bulk to a cut. And as mentioned here, his progress was still substantial in that respect.

So, I think you'll find there are very good logical reasons for your findings. It just takes some productive discussion.

All I'm saying, Rob, is that you can picture this guy fighting to the death on nolinksplease.com when anyone calls out the legitimacy of ecdysteroids and the blueprint, but his own results are no better (and in fact worse) than MOST people can pull off in 3 months with just protein supplementation and a solid 5x5 strength program.

If the thread gets deleted for supposed negativity, whatever. T-Nation moderation style can be popular when it comes to providing optimal environments to push products and theories.

I see no reason to delete this thread. I'm certainly OK with different opinions and in fact, encourage them.

As I said prior, MSR went from a full blown bulk to a cut (in fact, I think he used a low carb diet - CKD) for such. Nevertheless, the total tonnage figures are pretty impressive, if you ask me.

Would a 5 x 5 protocol yield the same or better results? I'm open to that. It'd be an interesting experiment, in fact.

On Fire wrote:

RobRegish wrote:
All I'm saying, Rob, is that you can picture this guy fighting to the death on nolinksplease.com when anyone calls out the legitimacy of ecdysteroids and the blueprint, but his own results are no better (and in fact worse) than MOST people can pull off in 3 months with just protein supplementation and a solid 5x5 strength program.
.

This isn't necessarily true though. for someone who has been training a while, a 35 lb increase on their repping weight (so maybe 50 lbs added to max?) is pretty significant.

35 lbs/3 months = 120+ lbs/year (assuming linear progress)

and that would be HUGE if it were easily pulled off. Without noob gains it would be damn difficult, in fact.

Hey I'm all for questioning training protocols and even motivating someone the "Woodcock" way. I mean one of my biggest motivaters early on was my high school football coach that called me a pussy. That alone motivated me for years in the gym and it was a neg. Maybe this thread will motivate msr to change it up, hit it hard, and prove you wrong.?.?.?
I'm just saying, you don't get invited into someones house, show up and attempt to belittle or embarass someone who has already been there.

Big.jazayrli wrote: This isn't necessarily true though. for someone who has been training a while, a 35 lb increase on their repping weight (so maybe 50 lbs added to max?) is pretty significant.

35 lbs/3 months = 120+ lbs/year (assuming linear progress)

and that would be HUGE if it were easily pulled off. Without noob gains it would be damn difficult, in fact.

They were newb gains. Look at the weights. You could take Joe Nobody off the street and he'd be able to push 185x5.

dracotdrgn wrote:Hey I'm all for questioning training protocols and even motivating someone the "Woodcock" way. I mean one of my biggest motivaters early on was my high school football coach that called me a pussy. That alone motivated me for years in the gym and it was a neg. Maybe this thread will motivate msr to change it up, hit it hard, and prove you wrong.?.?.?
I'm just saying, you don't get invited into someones house, show up and attempt to belittle or embarass someone who has already been there.

I'm afraid you can't take this thread for face value my friend. MSR has quite a reputation on nolinksplease.com, where hes made millions of posts about the wonders of ecdy's and the blueprint and how anyone who didn't feel the effects was simply doing it wrong.

If you're a member of nolinksplease.com, you're welcome to do some research, if that doesn't turn your crank, then just don't worry about it. I'm not just coming here to belittle someone. I'm suddenly privy to information that I wasn't before, and I'm asking "Where's the beef?"

Draco's got plenty of Blueprint Beef on him for sure... And he's no noob. Far from it.

One look at his logs/pics will affirm this. His squatting #'s alone are insane.. To this I'd ask that you also check out sovabrat, beachpirate, mars88's, Hank's, Turboflex's, gymrat53's logs etc.

It's literally raining PR's in every one of them. I'm not saying EVERYONE who uses BP gets these kinds of gains, but it's happening with alarming regularity across a broad spectrum of trainees.

Easy Rob, the only guy I'm calling into question here is MSR.

I'd call out Lovehasrisen too, but he doesn't post his lifts, his weights or his photos.

No offense, but I don't think anyone here cares about any of the nolinksplease.com piss wars.

I'd say it's best to keep that kind of stuff over there.

And Draco... dude, he is a BEAST. And, a MASS customer for a good 15 years, too, I'm happy to say.

And flatly, I think it is really wrong to attempt to knock someone based on posted weights/reps without any idea of their physical stature/genetics and countless other potential biomechanics and medical limitations.

Discounting the generally lower end weights being used, the guy made significant progress to my eye. Moving from 185x5 to 220x5 is a big gain for a hardgainer type.

Maybe you were blessed with much better genetics, and if so, be thankful for that, not disparaging to those less fortunate.

My 2 cents.

Clearly this is only going to get uglier. Delete the post. I don't care enough about the answer from the horses mouth to listen to others claim I'm bashing and attacking someone based on their genetics.