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RobRegish wrote:Careful with Yohimbine HCL. See The Blueprint for more details! Both are OK IF you tolerate them!

i just wanted to make sure that this won't decrease my results. i am EXTREMELY stimulant tolerant, so that's not an issue.


3. Xtend (I have a 30 serving tub im gonna use 3 scoops of [18g BCAA] on the 3 on/3 off loading pattern) - Good man. Try to get that up a bit though, even if you have to cut it short/order more.

will do, i'll aim for maybe 25-30g a day then


5. Pure Ecdysterones [300mg tabs] (This was my main question, these seem to be a bit more reasonable price wise and claim to be 100% pure, what are your thoughts?) A. Wow. I need to know the brand and the source plant. At that dose/claimed purity I am highly skeptical but will reserve judgement until I know more. With Ecdy, you for sure get what you pay for.

The brand is actually sci-fit. The price isn't the cheapest i've ever seen, and i typically would trust their products. I figured i might as well give it a test run and see how it compares to kre-anabolyn when i have that later.

A. Good deal. This should be considered a trial run and if nothing else, get you acclimated to Famine

askmass wrote: As far as the Ecdysterone 300 goes... To be nice about it, it isn't RCE by a long shot and hits about the same standard as the many generic Ecdysterone products of yesteryear when everyone "in the know" was using $79 a bottle Zebutol.

Here's more on that from Rob himself, along with our bold guarantee of provable results that you'll never see anyone else offer- https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/rhaponticum-carthamoides.html

Not to push Kre-Anabolyn too much, but it does also cover the Kre-Alkalyn for you and 3g a day is excessive in my opinion outside of maybe a 300 lb. powerlifter.

Best regards and wishing you a fantastic BP run, Big J.

RobRegish wrote:i just wanted to make sure that this won't decrease my results. i am EXTREMELY stimulant tolerant, so that's not an issue.

A. OK, in that event it shouldn't hurt anything.

3. Xtend (I have a 30 serving tub im gonna use 3 scoops of [18g BCAA] on the 3 on/3 off loading pattern) - Good man. Try to get that up a bit though, even if you have to cut it short/order more.

will do, i'll aim for maybe 25-30g a day then.

A. Good, good


5. Pure Ecdysterones [300mg tabs] (This was my main question, these seem to be a bit more reasonable price wise and claim to be 100% pure, what are your thoughts?) A. Wow. I need to know the brand and the source plant. At that dose/claimed purity I am highly skeptical but will reserve judgement until I know more. With Ecdy, you for sure get what you pay for.

The brand is actually sci-fit. The price isn't the cheapest i've ever seen, and i typically would trust their products. I figured i might as well give it a test run and see how it compares to kre-anabolyn when i have that later.

A. I've got to tell you, Sci-Fit has some good and some AWFUL products. It's my opinion that this Ecdy fits the latter. I'm open to your experience though.. Just that everyone I've ever spoken to that' used it saw zilch. Sci-Fit does some things well. Herbs IMO, aren't one of them. Still, I wish you the best!

A. Good deal. This should be considered a trial run and if nothing else, get you acclimated to Famine

askmass wrote:Gosh... I'm hesitant to post because I don't like the idea of going out of my way to bash specific products.

That said, sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

I have seen several independent HPLC lab analysis tests as well as simple individual trials over the years which clearly show the vast majority of liver tabs on the market to be essentially worthless.

Some in particular do not come remotely close to label claim (despite the mega marketing machine behind them) and in fact never dissolve into suspension!

Nature’s Life has a great rep and test scores to back it. Beverly International and Dave Draper are the only other two brands of liver tabs that I could in good faith recommend to anyone. Note that all of these run $40+ for 500 tabs.


Excerpts from a 2005 individual trial I found in our files-


When I first began this experiment, I picked up a bottle of desiccated liver tablets from my local Whole Foods store. The only brand of desiccated liver that they carried was “Nature’s Life Beef Liver”. I began by taking 2 tablets every couple of hours, until I was taking about 6 tablets 4-5 times a day.

After two weeks of this regime with the “Nature’s Life” brand, the things I noticed most, from a workout & personal perspective, were the increased stamina, increased energy, quicker recovery times, and less DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness).

I later purchased “Universal Uni-Liver”, “Beverly International Ultra-40”, and “NOW Liver,” which seemed to be the more popular brands that I could find. I used each one over a three week period to see if there were a better response from one brand or the other based on my own personal experience.

Interestingly, it seemed I got a better response from my first default choice, “Nature’s Life Beef Liver”, followed somewhat by “Beverly International’s Ultra-40”.

I didn't notice any of the beneficial effects that I had previously, while using “NOW Liver” or “Universal Uni-Liver” tablets. Hmmmm.

Also, some of these tablets, most notably “Universal’s Uni-Liver”, are probably some of the largest tablets you may ever attempt to swallow.


Tablet Dissolving Test
================

I was curious about how effective these tablets were, considering the size and hardness of some of them, and the fact that the NOW and Universal brands provided no perceived benefits to me in my individual 3-week tests. I was curious as to why. So, I set up a dissolving test for each tablet suspecting that might be the problem.

A healthy human stomach is acidic, in the range of 1.5 to 3.5 pH, on average.

I placed each tablet in a hydrochloric acid solution with a pH value of 2.5.

Interestingly, the Uni-Liver and Nature’s Life tablets both floated, while the other two sunk to the bottom. In addition, the NOW Liver tablet began bubbling almost immediately. All of this is probably related to the different binding ingredients used in each brand of tablet.

Now, after 35 minutes, here’s what we have:

This isn’t completely scientific, because I haven’t completely duplicated the process of the stomach, in that I did not provide any type of mixing or churning action that the stomach would naturally do while digesting food, and I didn’t keep the temperature at approximately 99 degrees as would be the case in a healthy stomach.

However, I now had some evidence as to why the “Nature’s Life” product was the best performing product of my test group. It naturally dissolved faster than any of the other products, and thus allowing more complete absorption. You can also see that the “Beverly International” product is in a state of dissolving as well.

Even more interesting, is that the “Universal Uni-Liver” product never showed any signs of dissolving. I continued to allow these samples to sit for another 2 hours – of course, after 2 hours these would have long vacated your stomach, but in the interest of curiosity I continued on. At the end of the 2 hours time, all the other products had dissolved completely, except the “Uni-Liver” product...



****



As far as the Ecdysterone 300 goes... To be nice about it, it isn't RCE by a long shot and hits about the same standard as the many generic Ecdysterone products of yesteryear when everyone "in the know" was using $79 a bottle Zebutol.

Here's more on that from Rob himself, along with our bold guarantee of provable results that you'll never see anyone else offer- https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/rhaponticum-carthamoides.html

Not to push Kre-Anabolyn too much, but it does also cover the Kre-Alkalyn for you and 3g a day is excessive in my opinion outside of maybe a 300 lb. powerlifter.

Best regards and wishing you a fantastic BP run, Big J.

Thank you both for the intelligent convo and response by askmass to the above individual. It is refreshing to see people not bashing the others opinion. It's amazing what a respectful response to another can do!

askmass wrote:Hi scump,

I would maintain that it is clearly presented as what it is - no more and no less - a simple observation study and opinion piece by one consumer.

He presents it as just that, matter of factly. The guy was a Draper student, I believe, and we have no ties to him whatsoever nor any vested interest in liver tabs one way or the other.

It does just so happen to generally follow, in more layman's terms, what has long been held as true inside the industry. And, as seen with well known and repeated Beverly International trials from years ago which were run in a scientifically strict manner.

That said, if you put your trust in Universal and feel you get results with their liver tabs, then who am I to argue with your personal observations and preference?