OK folks, time to break some big news...
I am now in posession of what in many ways was the inspiration for The Blueprint: ZOE Discoveries Zebutol. I've added this to my remaining Maxwell Research Anabolica stash. They are long out of production/circulation and were formulated by the eccentric amateur chemist, Mark Thierman.
You can thank a very generous individual (David) who I began corresponding with a month ago who was kind enough to mail me an upopened bottle of Zeb AND almost a full bottle of ZOE Ecdysterone to boot!
These appear to be the genuine article, as distributed by MASS and a very few select other outlets circa 1993-1995 timeframe before they disappeared forever. They are NOT that junk Zoe LABS or Zoe ENTERPRISES Ecdy that was peddled shortly thereafter.
There have already been some surprises, based on stated label actives. These surprises lend further credibility to the fact that Mr. Thierman was in fact formulator of all 3, which he confirmed in coversation with me.
I'm working with MASS right now to find a lab suitable to test all 3 to determine once an for all what was really in these products (at least these batches).
Stay tuned for more information. I can't promise what'll be found. I can promise however, I'll do all I can to try and use this knowledge for the benefit of our Blueprint community.
Pics to follow.... all 3 side by side complete with labels, tablet size comparision etc..
Fire away with any questions.
Zebutol, Anabolica, ZOE Ecdy, Oh My..
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dracotdrgn
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:05 pm
- Location: Tacoma, Washington
LONG story here...
Lots of speculation as to why they disappeared. The most credible of which is that the man who made the raws (Mark Thierman), has been shall we say "busy" with the law at various times over other, un-related issues. As such, it's periodically appeared and re-appeared over the years in various forms...
Lots of speculation as to why they disappeared. The most credible of which is that the man who made the raws (Mark Thierman), has been shall we say "busy" with the law at various times over other, un-related issues. As such, it's periodically appeared and re-appeared over the years in various forms...
Update Nov 16, 2009:
I think I have a contact that'll test the stuff. He works at a University and has access to a GCMS (Gas Chromatography Mass Spectrometry) machine. We've identified the melting point for Laxogenin, working on Laxogenin Acetate. Also trying to figure out the "suma sterol extract" in Zebutol.
Anyone at all with any information pertaining to these please PM me or post here. Stay tuned!
I think I have a contact that'll test the stuff. He works at a University and has access to a GCMS (Gas Chromatography Mass Spectrometry) machine. We've identified the melting point for Laxogenin, working on Laxogenin Acetate. Also trying to figure out the "suma sterol extract" in Zebutol.
Anyone at all with any information pertaining to these please PM me or post here. Stay tuned!
This is more exciting than releasing of archived presidential files !
It wasn't exactly Raiders of the Lost Arc but it reads as if finding this stuff was very difficult.
Very interested in these findings and hope the concoction isn't like the Bush baked Bean's where only the dog knows whats in it !
Any plans to reproduce it once identified ?
It wasn't exactly Raiders of the Lost Arc but it reads as if finding this stuff was very difficult.
Very interested in these findings and hope the concoction isn't like the Bush baked Bean's where only the dog knows whats in it !
Any plans to reproduce it once identified ?
Ha ha!
Difficult to procure indeed! It was the generosity of someone that barely knew me too..... Really hit home with me.
I anticipate something within the coming weeks. In fact, emailing him again tomorrow to see if he's back from break.
I have no idea what will be found. Could be nothing, could be ecdy, could be androgens. I suppose this could wind up like Geraldo opening up Al Capone's vaults way back when...
You ask an interesting question about re-producing the stuff. It's crossed my mind more than once. But I'm not in the biz of making supps and such. Long way to go so let's see how this unfolds!
Difficult to procure indeed! It was the generosity of someone that barely knew me too..... Really hit home with me.
I anticipate something within the coming weeks. In fact, emailing him again tomorrow to see if he's back from break.
I have no idea what will be found. Could be nothing, could be ecdy, could be androgens. I suppose this could wind up like Geraldo opening up Al Capone's vaults way back when...
You ask an interesting question about re-producing the stuff. It's crossed my mind more than once. But I'm not in the biz of making supps and such. Long way to go so let's see how this unfolds!
Latest from my contact on January 12th:
"Just wanted to touch base and let you know I’ll be starting to look at the compounds this Thursday. I have most of the research, just have to re-review it, then am going to test solubilities of the compound in certain solvents with the goal of removing the inorganic fillers and what not. If you could re-email me the pictures of the bottles with the labels showing the ingredients (especially the “inert” ingredients), that would be great. Helps me know what I have to extract and discard. Then I will be able to run it through the GCMS, hope the compound is reference in the library, and at the very least, be able to send you what results I got. That, and of course, run a melting point analysis(which I hope I can find the thermometer that I need…reading up to 431 degrees Celsius is kind of hard and may also prove tricky running GCMS)."
So, may take a bit longer. For what it's worth, this guy is doing it for free and out of the goodness of his heart so I'm VERY mindful/respectful of that. Belive me, I'm as anxious as you are...
"Just wanted to touch base and let you know I’ll be starting to look at the compounds this Thursday. I have most of the research, just have to re-review it, then am going to test solubilities of the compound in certain solvents with the goal of removing the inorganic fillers and what not. If you could re-email me the pictures of the bottles with the labels showing the ingredients (especially the “inert” ingredients), that would be great. Helps me know what I have to extract and discard. Then I will be able to run it through the GCMS, hope the compound is reference in the library, and at the very least, be able to send you what results I got. That, and of course, run a melting point analysis(which I hope I can find the thermometer that I need…reading up to 431 degrees Celsius is kind of hard and may also prove tricky running GCMS)."
So, may take a bit longer. For what it's worth, this guy is doing it for free and out of the goodness of his heart so I'm VERY mindful/respectful of that. Belive me, I'm as anxious as you are...
Latest info from this morning:
"Hey, ran the GCMS of the compound on Thursday and just got time to tell you about it. I didn’t see anything first look-through, but the professor I research with claims he saw it toward the end of the analysis as a very small peak. I will have to reconcentrate the sample and try again. This is speaking of Anabolica, of which I used 1 tablet. We also ordered a journal on the extraction of ecdysterone from plants, so if they can extract it from plants, we can extract it from a pill using the same method LOTS easier."
I did come across an interesting article by Japanese researchers, showing how they extracted Laxogenin from the Smilax Sieboldii plant and shared this with him:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1369 ... rom=pubmed
Thierman claims to have derived it from diosgenin. My opinion is that there are likely several ways to skin this cat, albeit it's a safe bet processing the plant extractions is a much better/more economical way to go about it vs. synthesizing.
So, it looks like there is something in Anabolica, just not sure what yet. As you can see he's putting a lot into this and it may take a bit longer but they're on to something.
More to follow...
"Hey, ran the GCMS of the compound on Thursday and just got time to tell you about it. I didn’t see anything first look-through, but the professor I research with claims he saw it toward the end of the analysis as a very small peak. I will have to reconcentrate the sample and try again. This is speaking of Anabolica, of which I used 1 tablet. We also ordered a journal on the extraction of ecdysterone from plants, so if they can extract it from plants, we can extract it from a pill using the same method LOTS easier."
I did come across an interesting article by Japanese researchers, showing how they extracted Laxogenin from the Smilax Sieboldii plant and shared this with him:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1369 ... rom=pubmed
Thierman claims to have derived it from diosgenin. My opinion is that there are likely several ways to skin this cat, albeit it's a safe bet processing the plant extractions is a much better/more economical way to go about it vs. synthesizing.
So, it looks like there is something in Anabolica, just not sure what yet. As you can see he's putting a lot into this and it may take a bit longer but they're on to something.
More to follow...