BP #4 and beyond; 5x5 & Madcow strength training + bluep

[nigh70wl]

Hey everyone. This thread is going to serve as an extended log. This is my third logged BP run, my fourth overall. Over the past year, I was doing BP, but I recently realized that I've been barking up the wrong tree, and I should have been doing something for a total beginner with BB lifts, like Starting Strength. So I have been doing a very basic strength training format for the past few weeks; push/pull split, focusing on improving my form in all of my big lifts. I started at 65% 5RM SQ, ~50% 5RM for OHP, BP, DL and Pendlay rows. I've been dieting fairly successfully for the past two months with the intention of getting to about 10% bf; my diet style is Leangains intermittent fasting, carb cycling, ~maintenance calories on workout days, ~400-600cal. deficit on off days. I'm 6' and currently about 158lbs. I'm primarily interested in strength gains in the Big 3 versus hypertrophy (not that we really do bodybuilding-style hypertrophy for Blueprint), but more on that later.

My intention is to continue doing 5x5 while in a caloric deficit until my body tells me that it needs more food; right now I'm not too worried about recomp or muscle building because I'm in a deficit. when my workload no longer permits a deficit I'll increase calories to ~500 extra per day, and after I reach a reasonable stall on 5x5, I'll execute Famine and a modified Feast. The caloric guidelines will change so as to be ~2k extra per day in the first 10 days of Feast, changing to ~1.5k extra per On day and ~1k extra per Off day (extra On day calories come mostly from The Formula, which I use whether I'm BPing or not... thanks Rob) for the rest of the first month unless I feel like more. I'll use adaptogens for the first month, probably E-bol and MegaTurk, as well as transdermal DHEA, and some growth factors: GHRP-6 and CJC-1295, which will be dosed immediately after waking and before bed on Off days, and, the foregoing + 30-45min PWO on On days. I've been using these two peptides for a few weeks and I'm impressed with my recovery since I started them; sleep seems to be more beneficial, since I started dosing at bedtime. in general I would expect my recovery to be sub-par because of the deficit I'm in, but, these seem to make the difference; I feel great the day after a workout. I've been dosing them before bed Off days and PWO + before bed On days.

The first month of Feast will probably just be normal 3.0 workouts with modified big lift protocols... I may alternate the top range rack pull with 1x5 DLs, flat BP static hold with 5x5, and the seated press static hold with 5x5 OHP or seated press. Also, I don't have anything to hit my hams with, and I'll be goddamned if I'm going to maximal effort multi-set low-bar squats followed by sets of hack squats, which I really despise doing with a barbell. so for legs I'll probably just squat the rep #s that Rob specifies, starting with 6 sets, decreasing the number of sets as needed for recovery.

Cruise will probably be some active recovery followed by Madcow, with extra rest days as needed.

So that's a pretty decent outline of where I'll be for the next few months. I can't wait to do another BP run but I know I have to wait until it's actually necessary, which won't be until I stall out on my lifts.

Comments, questions and suggestions are welcome. Cheers!

[Dragon]

So it sounds like you want to "clean up" your BB technique?

[DaCookie]

Hey man just some constructive criticism.You are 6ft 158lbs and cutting?Definitely shouldnt be doing that man.You are probably in the same boat as me or somewhat similiar, meso with strong ecto qualitys or pure ecto.My bone structure is almost full ecto, very light but long bones.I am 6ft aswell.

Let me tell you when I was 168lbs I did a cut and it was a complete failure, why?Because I wasnt big enough, it just wasnt worth it.I was about 14% bf.Since then ive just been bulking, right now im 200lbs but yet im 10-12% bf.Trust me, put on some size and dont bother cutting to 10% bf.You either get shredded at 6% bf or less or you get bigger.There is no point cutting for the sake of cutting at 158lbs.It will just fail and you will basically end up 'skinny fat' (a bad muscle:fat ratio)

Heres another story for you, after that failed cut a few runs later I did a recomp at 168lbs.I gained a little mass and leaned out to 10%bf, was it worth it?No.I was still 168lbs just at like 2% bf, definitely not worth it.

Eat clean and eat a crap load of it.

[Dragon]

I'm going to have to agree with dacookie on this one. Quite frankly it sounds like you're not eating enough. Maybe on purpose? IDK.

You dont need to cut, just a healthy diet, good rest, and heavy weight (whatever is heavy for you).

I realized for me that all the test boosters, xfa, KA, etc... amount to nothing if i dont eat enough. The FORMULA has made the greatest difference so far.
Check out Rob's tips for diet and sneaking in more Cals.

this is something i sip on when im in a rush and busy at work:

One bag of Bare Naked granola in blender till it turns into powder, 32 oz of coconut milk, 8 oz of h2o (or more), 100-200 grams protein powder, one teaspoon of Just barley green powder ( to keep u alkaline). I've calculated that to be over 2500 Kals, if u add heavy cream with milk instead of coconut milk you you can break 3000 Kals, and it taste great and doesnt have the wheat that the ancient grains has.

Also, I'd becareful of rippletoe's stuff. Specially that horrible low bar squat he teaches and I dont like the way he teaches deadlift AT ALL. His stuff literally hurts my back. Mike Mahler produced an amazing dvd with Mark Phillipi that's good. Even better are the videos online from Westside Barbell named "so you think you can squat" ---"so you think you can benchpress"--"---- deadlift?"

Since I've been using that form of training along with the accesory exercises (injury prevention exercise that should be performed after your main workout) they recommend i've had little to no pain in shoulder when benching and no pain in lowerback when i squat

[DaCookie]

I'm going to have to agree with dacookie on this one. Quite frankly it sounds like you're not eating enough. Maybe onpurpose? IDK.

You dont need to cut, just a healthy diet, good rest, and heavy weight (whatever is heavy for you).

I realized for me that all the test boosters, xfa, KA, etc... amount to nothing if i dont eat enough. The FORMULA has made the greatest difference so far.
Check out Rob's tips for diet and sneaking in more Cals.

this is something i sip on when im in a rush and busy at work:

One bag of Bare Naked granola in blender till it turns into powder, 32 oz of coconut milk, 8 oz of h2o (or more), 100-200 grams protein powder, one teaspoon of Just barley green powder ( to keep u alkaline). I've calculated that to be over 2500 Kals, if u add heavy cream with milk instead of coconut milk you you can break 3000 Kals, and it taste great and doesnt have the wheat that the ancient grains has.

Also, I'd becareful of rippletoe's stuff. Specially that horrible low bar squat he teaches and I dont like the way he teaches deadlift AT ALL. His stuff literally hirts my back. Mike Mahler produced an amazind dvd with mark phillipi thats good and even better are the videos online from westside barbell named "so you think you can squat" ---"so you think you can benchpress"--"---- deadlift?"

Since I've been using that form of training along with the accesory stuff they recommend i've been having very little to no pain in shoulder when benching and no pain in lowerback when i squat

Yeah man I was a supp junkie too, really smart but still overkill supplementation but shit diet.When I really wanna bulk I drink raw milk like 2-3litres a day which is something like 55-80% of a US gallon.I also did where I ate cashews like crazy but learned after that I have an allergy to all nuts ive tried at least.Peanuts, almonds, cashews.Both are really good, try both see what works for you...eat eat eat

[Dragon]

I'm going to have to agree with dacookie on this one. Quite frankly it sounds like you're not eating enough. Maybe onpurpose? IDK.

You dont need to cut, just a healthy diet, good rest, and heavy weight (whatever is heavy for you).

I realized for me that all the test boosters, xfa, KA, etc... amount to nothing if i dont eat enough. The FORMULA has made the greatest difference so far.
Check out Rob's tips for diet and sneaking in more Cals.

this is something i sip on when im in a rush and busy at work:

One bag of Bare Naked granola in blender till it turns into powder, 32 oz of coconut milk, 8 oz of h2o (or more), 100-200 grams protein powder, one teaspoon of Just barley green powder ( to keep u alkaline). I've calculated that to be over 2500 Kals, if u add heavy cream with milk instead of coconut milk you you can break 3000 Kals, and it taste great and doesnt have the wheat that the ancient grains has.

Also, I'd becareful of rippletoe's stuff. Specially that horrible low bar squat he teaches and I dont like the way he teaches deadlift AT ALL. His stuff literally hirts my back. Mike Mahler produced an amazind dvd with mark phillipi thats good and even better are the videos online from westside barbell named "so you think you can squat" ---"so you think you can benchpress"--"---- deadlift?"

Since I've been using that form of training along with the accesory stuff they recommend i've been having very little to no pain in shoulder when benching and no pain in lowerback when i squat

Yeah man I was a supp junkie too, really smart but still overkill supplementation but shit diet.When I really wanna bulk I drink raw milk like 2-3litres a day which is something like 55-80% of a US gallon.I also did where I ate cashews like crazy but learned after that I have an allergy to all nuts ive tried at least.Peanuts, almonds, cashews.Both are really good, try both see what works for you...eat eat eat

I tried raw milk bro but...

gas was crazy intense. I'm gonna try it again with some kind of lactase supp.

There should/is probably be another thread on this.
OK, I'll shut up now.

[matter2003]

Hey man just some constructive criticism.You are 6ft 158lbs and cutting?Definitely shouldnt be doing that man.You are probably in the same boat as me or somewhat similiar, meso with strong ecto qualitys or pure ecto.My bone structure is almost full ecto, very light but long bones.I am 6ft aswell.

Let me tell you when I was 168lbs I did a cut and it was a complete failure, why?Because I wasnt big enough, it just wasnt worth it.I was about 14% bf.Since then ive just been bulking, right now im 200lbs but yet im 10-12% bf.Trust me, put on some size and dont bother cutting to 10% bf.You either get shredded at 6% bf or less or you get bigger.There is no point cutting for the sake of cutting at 158lbs.It will just fail and you will basically end up 'skinny fat' (a bad muscle:fat ratio)

Heres another story for you, after that failed cut a few runs later I did a recomp at 168lbs.I gained a little mass and leaned out to 10%bf, was it worth it?No.I was still 168lbs just at like 2% bf, definitely not worth it.

Eat clean and eat a crap load of it.

I would have to agree with Cookie on this one...I am 5' 8" tall and 205 lbs at right around 14% BF(between 13.7-14.3 depending on the day) currently and am looking to run a quick cut to about 8% BF over the next 12 weeks. However, keep in mind that just on Lean Body Weight alone, I still outweigh you by almost 20 lbs. Even with a cut to 8%, I probably will still weigh somewhere in the 190-195 lb range depending on if I can maintain or build muscle while doing it.

The point is, I have quite a bit of muscle packed onto my frame and even if I cut down some, I will still have a lot of muscle left. If you are 6ft and 158 lbs, you likely do not have enough muscle to end up looking good by cutting down even further. You likely will also cost yourself some strength. Build the muscle first and then worry about getting to the BF you want once you get to your target weight. If you are a meso or ecto, you likely will drop quite a bit of BF% just by gaining muscle...

[matter2003]

I'm going to have to agree with dacookie on this one. Quite frankly it sounds like you're not eating enough. Maybe onpurpose? IDK.

You dont need to cut, just a healthy diet, good rest, and heavy weight (whatever is heavy for you).

I realized for me that all the test boosters, xfa, KA, etc... amount to nothing if i dont eat enough. The FORMULA has made the greatest difference so far.
Check out Rob's tips for diet and sneaking in more Cals.

this is something i sip on when im in a rush and busy at work:

One bag of Bare Naked granola in blender till it turns into powder, 32 oz of coconut milk, 8 oz of h2o (or more), 100-200 grams protein powder, one teaspoon of Just barley green powder ( to keep u alkaline). I've calculated that to be over 2500 Kals, if u add heavy cream with milk instead of coconut milk you you can break 3000 Kals, and it taste great and doesnt have the wheat that the ancient grains has.

Also, I'd becareful of rippletoe's stuff. Specially that horrible low bar squat he teaches and I dont like the way he teaches deadlift AT ALL. His stuff literally hirts my back. Mike Mahler produced an amazind dvd with mark phillipi thats good and even better are the videos online from westside barbell named "so you think you can squat" ---"so you think you can benchpress"--"---- deadlift?"

Since I've been using that form of training along with the accesory stuff they recommend i've been having very little to no pain in shoulder when benching and no pain in lowerback when i squat

Yeah man I was a supp junkie too, really smart but still overkill supplementation but shit diet.When I really wanna bulk I drink raw milk like 2-3litres a day which is something like 55-80% of a US gallon.I also did where I ate cashews like crazy but learned after that I have an allergy to all nuts ive tried at least.Peanuts, almonds, cashews.Both are really good, try both see what works for you...eat eat eat

Ahh...the old litre...I have to know all this stuff due to our proximity to Canada

The thing I never understood is why Soda or Pop is sold in liters even in the US...

[matter2003]

Here is one of my favorite shakes:

2 Cups Whole Milk(292 Cals)
3 Flavored Yogurts(300-450 cals depending on type)
1 Cup Oatmeal(307 cals)
3 Scoops Protein Powder(300 cals)
2 TBSP Olive Oil(252 cals)

This is about 1500 cals, you can double the batch if you want to make it 3000 cals. I used to drink half right before going to bed at night and the other half in the morning once I woke up...

[DaCookie]

Hey man just some constructive criticism.You are 6ft 158lbs and cutting?Definitely shouldnt be doing that man.You are probably in the same boat as me or somewhat similiar, meso with strong ecto qualitys or pure ecto.My bone structure is almost full ecto, very light but long bones.I am 6ft aswell.

Let me tell you when I was 168lbs I did a cut and it was a complete failure, why?Because I wasnt big enough, it just wasnt worth it.I was about 14% bf.Since then ive just been bulking, right now im 200lbs but yet im 10-12% bf.Trust me, put on some size and dont bother cutting to 10% bf.You either get shredded at 6% bf or less or you get bigger.There is no point cutting for the sake of cutting at 158lbs.It will just fail and you will basically end up 'skinny fat' (a bad muscle:fat ratio)

Heres another story for you, after that failed cut a few runs later I did a recomp at 168lbs.I gained a little mass and leaned out to 10%bf, was it worth it?No.I was still 168lbs just at like 2% bf, definitely not worth it.

Eat clean and eat a crap load of it.

I would have to agree with Cookie on this one...I am 5' 8" tall and 205 lbs at right around 14% BF(between 13.7-14.3 depending on the day) currently and am looking to run a quick cut to about 8% BF over the next 12 weeks. However, keep in mind that just on Lean Body Weight alone, I still outweigh you by almost 20 lbs. Even with a cut to 8%, I probably will still weigh somewhere in the 190-195 lb range depending on if I can maintain or build muscle while doing it.

The point is, I have quite a bit of muscle packed onto my frame and even if I cut down some, I will still have a lot of muscle left. If you are 6ft and 158 lbs, you likely do not have enough muscle to end up looking good by cutting down even further. You likely will also cost yourself some strength. Build the muscle first and then worry about getting to the BF you want once you get to your target weight. If you are a meso or ecto, you likely will drop quite a bit of BF% just by gaining muscle...

I think youre being a bit optimistic here, you cant just take the % you want to lose and expect to lose that in lbs, youl lose a lot more.Stomach shrinking, water loss, glycogen loss.12 weeks seems very reasonable though.

[nigh70wl]

awesome, thanks for the responses guys. the general consensus seems to be that I should be eating more - don't worry, I'm not a chronic under-eater. I've just been on a serious caloric surplus all year, and my belly was getting a little chubby. I managed to diet it down enough to satisfy my ego, in time to start eating at a surplus again a few days ago. from now on I'll be at a surplus of 500-1000 a day, probably carb and calorie-cycling for more on On days and less on Off days.

my indication to switch to extra calories was my OHP stalling at 65lbs.; I managed 4 sets of 5 and then couldn't hit the second rep on my 5th set, which is ridiculous, because that's a really light weight. so it was immediately obvious that it was time to start eating more. I'm currently at 165 SQ, 95 BP, 170 DL, 65 OHP and 95 Pendlay rows; progressing with no trouble in all of those excepting OHP, which I'm assuming I stalled so quickly on because I a) started too close to my 5RM, which is probably like... 70, and because I wasn't eating enough. we'll see how tomorrow's OHP goes.

dragon, you're right, I'm primarily focusing on my form right now, it was high time to clean it up. I really do like low-bar squats, to be honest, I find that they engage a lot more of my lower body now that I'm doing them Rippetoe's way.

[Dragon]

I hope your run is going well and you are able to stay the course. Be careful with those low bar squats too. You are correct in your observation that the low bar technique engages the lower body to do more of the lift. My concern is - and always will be - that technique takes very long and weak muscles and places a tremendous amount of the load responsibility on those muscles (which are typically underdeveloped and thus prone to tears). If you trace the insertion of the gracilis, or even the sorrounding area, you will see the connection to the pubis bone grows longer and further during descent into the lift. These are muscles that can easily be trained with accesory movements that are a kazzillion times safer and that will help you squat more anyways in the long run. I'm not bragging but it is this same approach that brought my squat from 155 to 210 in only three weeks WITHOUT INJURY, STRAIN OR PAIN (thanks to Rob's advice too).
I won't even get into the stress that position places on the lower spinae erectors!

Even more problematic is that many have not developed significant core strength to justify a lift that allows them to load MORE weight when they cant even rely on valsava's menuevar to splint the spine (WHICH IS ALREADY IN A COMPRIMISED POSITION)
Look... I'm sorry. I know ripple is popular but I dont buy it.
But if you KNOW your core (not just abs) can hack it, then proceed with caution.

[nigh70wl]

thanks for checking in, Dragon.

things are going well, my squat is up to 185, BP 110, OHP 70, DL 190, pendlay rows 110. squats are starting to show a tad bit of technique cracking but that's to be expected, getting closer to whatever my 5RM was before I started this. deadlifts are starting to be actually tiring, a harbinger of vein-popping DLs to come. my OHP form isn't great, some reps are much easier than others, so I need to keep working on it.

my core is pretty decent, I was squatting more weight before I started this 5x5 without any problems. as far as underdeveloped muscles, well, I started this 5x5 at a 130lb. squat lol, so they've had time to catch up to the rest.

[Dragon]

Hey man,

I read lots of logs here cause everyone is nice. Please don't confuse my passion with anger! Just take care to take care. So many of us workout alone.