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Alternate Day Fasting Leads to Stronger and Harder muscles??
Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:11 am
by matter2003
Wow...this one REALLY blew my mind...
You won’t be surprised to learn that mice get faster and stronger if they run for 20 minutes 5 days a week on a treadmill. But that the combination of this training schedule and fasting every other day makes the muscles even stronger and faster may just cause you to raise your eyebrows. We found this in a study that researchers at the Universidad Pablo de Olavide-CSIC published in PLoS One.
Half of the mice ate on alternate days for the first 18 weeks of the experiment [EOD]. A control group ate every day [AL]. The EOD mice didn’t lose any weight – apparently on the days they were allowed to eat the mice ate more.
After the 18 weeks were up, half of each group of mice trained for a period of 6 weeks, without any change to the feeding regimens [T]. So there were four groups of test animals: AL, ALT, EOD and EODT.
At the end of the 24 weeks the muscles of the mice in the EODT group had become stronger than the muscles of the other animals. During an exhaustion test the EODT mice also ran for longer and covered a greater distance.
The fat burning – beta-oxidation – was higher in the muscle cells of the EODT mice. After intensive physical exertion the researchers also found fewer signs of muscle damage in the EODT animals: they had less creatine kinase in their blood and fewer damaged fatty acids [MDA] in their muscle cell membranes.
The EODT animals had more mitochondria in their muscles. That made the conversion of nutrients into energy easier, so the mice were stronger and tired less quickly.
The researchers suspect that their animal study might be relevant to humans as well. "The combination of the reduction of calorie intake and the practice of aerobic exercise would also increase physical performance in humans and then, improve their quality of life", they write. The Spanish make no claims as to whether athletes perform better if they raise their caloric intake on one day and lower it on the next.
***ROB...what do you make of this? If Ecdy works better with a caloric deficit, could this supercharge the results?? IMHO, I think this might be worth experimenting with, and with having some extra fat I wouldn't mind getting rid of, I would be happy to volunteer if you think it might be worthwhile....****
Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:23 am
by RobRegish
I'm doing it now and YES, it works!!
Pick up a copy of Ori Hoffmekler's "Maximum Muscle, Minimum Fat - The Science of Physical Perfection... ", for a deeper understand of the mechanisms involved.
Worth it, for the "in your face", title alone...
Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 10:34 pm
by Linkiroth
This sounds really interesting; how would one dose KA while doing ADF?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:45 am
by RobRegish
Hmmm...
Just like this, maybe... ?
Kre-Anabolyn/ebol ecdy Dosing in The BP - Rob's OPINION
https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/ ... php?t=1069
KRE-ANABOLYN
1 cap one hour prior to your workout with a BIT of dietary fat, 3 caps of fish oil, tablespoon of fish oil or natural PB.
1 cap immediately post workout with the remaining 3rd of "The Formula"
1 cap with your sit down solid food meal an hour later.
Ideally, a higher CARB and based meal, including some quality proteins. At least 60C/40P there with a bit of dietary fat.
Off days 1 caps 3 times a day with your highest CARB basedmeals, including some quality proteins and a bit of fat. Ideally breakfast lunch and dinner.
You really have to hand it to that, "Mixelflick" guy..
He even went so far... as to make it a "sticky"
Just funnin' ya'. I/we have some work to do, insofar as cleaning this up. Then again, if YOU have trouble finding it (with my help), imagine the cranial crisis the pirates have!!
BAWHAHAHA!!!
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 11:01 am
by Linkiroth
RobRegish wrote:Hmmm...
Just like this, maybe... ?
Kre-Anabolyn/ebol ecdy ecdy Dosing in The BP - Rob's OPINION
https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/ ... php?t=1069
KRE-ANABOLYN
1 cap one hour prior to your workout with a BIT of dietary fat, 3 caps of fish oil, tablespoon of fish oil or natural PB.
1 cap immediately post workout with the remaining 3rd of "The Formula"
1 cap with your sit down solid food meal an hour later.
Ideally, a higher CARB and based meal, including some quality proteins. At least 60C/40P there with a bit of dietary fat.
Off days 1 caps 3 times a day with your highest CARB basedmeals, including some quality proteins and a bit of fat. Ideally breakfast lunch and dinner.
You really have to hand it to that, "Mixelflick" guy..
He even went so far... as to make it a "sticky"
Just funnin' ya'. I/we have some work to do, insofar as cleaning this up. Then again, if YOU have trouble finding it (with my help), imagine the cranial crisis the pirates have!!
BAWHAHAHA!!!
Haha, thanks Rob, I've seen that before. My question is related to the 24 hours that you're fasting. If you're not eating, you can't take KA with your highest carb based meals since you're not eating ANY meals. Would you just dose your 3 caps every 7-8 hours?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:56 pm
by DaCookie
I wouldnt take it at all then double up on the eating days
Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 9:15 am
by beefcake66
So I'm clear... is this 24 hours of no eating, then 24 hours of eating? or just eating for one period every 24 hours?
Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 9:38 am
by RobRegish
Linkiroth wrote:RobRegish wrote:Hmmm...
Just like this, maybe... ?
Kre-Anabolyn/ebol ecdy ecdy ecdy Dosing in The BP - Rob's OPINION
https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/ ... php?t=1069
KRE-ANABOLYN
1 cap one hour prior to your workout with a BIT of dietary fat, 3 caps of fish oil, tablespoon of fish oil or natural PB.
1 cap immediately post workout with the remaining 3rd of "The Formula"
MUCH better solution here, is BCAA's.
More economical, plus I don't like wasting KA. Not a BAD plan, by any means. I just so love KA, wouldn't want to run it w/anything less than the "sun is shining", environment..
Plus, I'm cheap..
1 cap with your sit down solid food meal an hour later.
Ideally, a higher CARB and based meal, including some quality proteins. At least 60C/40P there with a bit of dietary fat.
Off days 1 caps 3 times a day with your highest CARB basedmeals, including some quality proteins and a bit of fat. Ideally breakfast lunch and dinner.
You really have to hand it to that, "Mixelflick" guy..
He even went so far... as to make it a "sticky"
Just funnin' ya'. I/we have some work to do, insofar as cleaning this up. Then again, if YOU have trouble finding it (with my help), imagine the cranial crisis the pirates have!!
BAWHAHAHA!!!
Haha, thanks Rob, I've seen that before. My question is related to the 24 hours that you're fasting. If you're not eating, you can't take KA with your highest carb based meals since you're not eating ANY meals. Would you just dose your 3 caps every 7-8 hours?
Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 9:58 am
by bigpelo
You can read "Eat stop eat" for more info on periodic intermittent fasting too. I am having strong result with the warrior diet and blueprint 3.0 right now. I am a strong believer of fasting right now.
Warrior diet: 20 hours of controlled fasting, 4 hours of over eating at the end of the day, each day.
Eat stop eat: 2 x 24 hours water fasts, from 2pm on one day to 2pm the next day each week.
I haven't tried eat stop eat yet but both make sense.
For KA dosing protocol, right now I am doing:
- 1cap in the morning with multilife, alkaplex green+, fish oil, 6 oz greek yogourt
- 2 caps before workout with same as above (change yogourt for the formula)
- 1 cap right after workout with again ML, AG+, FO, the formula
- 1 cap with main meal
Non-training days:
1 cap with morning yogourt
2 caps with mid day fruits or veges or protein shake
2 caps with main meal
each time with multilife, alkaplex green+ and fish oil
Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:13 am
by BrainSquirt
For me, KA indications on a one day on one day off cycle of fasting would be
Take normal dose afternoon of feed day. No need to double up.
Also, no need to take it on fast day
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:25 am
by matter2003
bigpelo wrote:You can read "Eat stop eat" for more info on periodic intermittent fasting too. I am having strong result with the warrior diet and blueprint 3.0 right now. I am a strong believer of fasting right now.
Warrior diet: 20 hours of controlled fasting, 4 hours of over eating at the end of the day, each day.
Eat stop eat: 2 x 24 hours water fasts, from 2pm on one day to 2pm the next day each week.
I haven't tried eat stop eat yet but both make sense.
For KA dosing protocol, right now I am doing:
- 1cap in the morning with multilife, alkaplex green+, fish oil, 6 oz greek yogourt
- 2 caps before workout with same as above (change yogourt for the formula)
- 1 cap right after workout with again ML, AG+, FO, the formula
- 1 cap with main meal
Non-training days:
1 cap with morning yogourt
2 caps with mid day fruits or veges or protein shake
2 caps with main meal
each time with multilife, alkaplex green+ and fish oil
Will be following an eat stop eat pattern...(fast 2 times per week)
Would it follow that the best fast days be on lifting days due to the huge increases in growth hormone? Could that impart anabolic effects overnight if training at night?
Theoretically since Growth hormone amplifies other hormones, it should increase the effectiveness of testosterone released due to weight training, especially since there would be so much of it floating around....
Is taking Kre-Anabolyn useless on fast days, or would it still be a good idea to take it? I know it is recommended by some to take BCAA's while fasting as well...
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:30 am
by bigpelo
matter2003 wrote:
Will be following an eat stop eat pattern...(fast 2 times per week)
Would it follow that the best fast days be on lifting days due to the huge increases in growth hormone? Could that impart anabolic effects overnight if training at night?
Theoretically since Growth hormone amplifies other hormones, it should increase the effectiveness of testosterone released due to weight training, especially since there would be so much of it floating around....
Is taking Kre-Anabolyn useless on fast days, or would it still be a good idea to take it? I know it is recommended by some to take BCAA's while fasting as well...
I have been training on an empty stomach for the last 2 months without difficulties. I got used to it after 2-3 weeks. So I guess you could train while fasting.
I do take kre-anabolyn every day, even during under-eating phase. Don't know if I am right though...
As far as BCAA during the day, I read somewhere that isolated amino acid spikes insulin just like sugar. If insulin is high, growth hormone will be low. I tried mega dosing BCAA during the under-eating phase of the warrior diet couple weeks ago: I didn't seems like growing muscles doing so but I realized I stopped losing body fat... So right now I only take raw veges and a small serving of berries will under eating: strength is still going up and body fat is going down.
Hth
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:45 am
by beefcake66
bigpelo -
When I'm fasting I usually take in BCAAs, and my weight doesn't change very quickly (losing weight). I didn't really know about the insulin spike from BCAA's preventing fatloss though... first I can remember hearing about it.
I do recomp more quickly while following a fasting-type routine though... so I'm skeptical that the spike would be that bad.
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:02 pm
by matter2003
bigpelo wrote:
As far as BCAA during the day, I read somewhere that isolated amino acid spikes insulin just like sugar. If insulin is high, growth hormone will be low. I tried mega dosing BCAA during the under-eating phase of the warrior diet couple weeks ago: I didn't seems like growing muscles doing so but I realized I stopped losing body fat... So right now I only take raw veges and a small serving of berries will under eating: strength is still going up and body fat is going down.
Hth
I guess that would make sense since BCAA's cause your body to become anabolic very quickly...