I agree, the fact that it is a 2lber is what puts me off masspro, not the price, its because I know I could get it decently cheaper if it was put in 5lbers so seems like im pissing on money.Still will probably buy a few tubs soon though.Hank! wrote:Really John that isn't outrageous, brands which are generally to be considered premium proteins hover around the 65-80 mark for 5lbs.askmass wrote:
It would cost us around $70 EACH to have 5 pounders of MASS PRO produced... Before adding a small resell mark up to pay the bills.
Not endorsing any of these but to illustrate a point
Isoflex $65 5lbs
XF 2.0 $30 2lbs
Vasolate $30 2lbs
Magnum Quattro $75 5lbs
I have reached a point where I dont buy the costco stuff anymore, I didnt love the flavor and it did upset my stomach. There isnt a 100% correlation between price and qulality, but its pretty darn close with proteins.
I do use a utility whey that i buy in bulk, but i keep high quality stuff around for specific purpose
ISOPURE Protein
To clarify- $70 would be a minimum production cost per 5 pounds of unpackaged bulk powder, not a packaged selling price for 5 pounds.
Tons of other things like freight from the lab, even the labels and jugs themselves, lab/gov certifications/fees/filings out the wazoo, chemist costs, our warehouse labor, office labor, web sites, taxes, lights, etc. and then a small profit have to be covered or we go out of business.
By my quick calculations, a 5 pounder of MASS PRO would be about $85 bucks in the end, and thus only very slightly less than what we sell the twin packs (4.24 pounds) at, which is $74.90.
You'd save about a buck, which is the difference in one jug verses two, essentially.
Next time you think about 5 pounders for $30, know they are making a profit at that price with all those same factors, plus millions of dollars in advertising covered in that price (and more since we are direct to consumer and cut out middle men) and then think about how they accomplish that selling price - and most importantly what are you really getting inside their jugs.
As a side note, we have absorbed 3 price increases on our end already in 2011 on MASS PRO.... and, that's not even factoring in how much inbound and outbound freight has increased with the gas situation in this country.
At some point very soon it's going to have to cost a little bit more going out the door.
Or, we could just turn off the lights and leave it all to the 5#@30 guys to rule the world, eh?
Tons of other things like freight from the lab, even the labels and jugs themselves, lab/gov certifications/fees/filings out the wazoo, chemist costs, our warehouse labor, office labor, web sites, taxes, lights, etc. and then a small profit have to be covered or we go out of business.
By my quick calculations, a 5 pounder of MASS PRO would be about $85 bucks in the end, and thus only very slightly less than what we sell the twin packs (4.24 pounds) at, which is $74.90.
You'd save about a buck, which is the difference in one jug verses two, essentially.
Next time you think about 5 pounders for $30, know they are making a profit at that price with all those same factors, plus millions of dollars in advertising covered in that price (and more since we are direct to consumer and cut out middle men) and then think about how they accomplish that selling price - and most importantly what are you really getting inside their jugs.
As a side note, we have absorbed 3 price increases on our end already in 2011 on MASS PRO.... and, that's not even factoring in how much inbound and outbound freight has increased with the gas situation in this country.
At some point very soon it's going to have to cost a little bit more going out the door.
Or, we could just turn off the lights and leave it all to the 5#@30 guys to rule the world, eh?
You don't understand! Askmass is talking essentially HIS WHOLESALE! At a 20% markup, isoflex in your example would be like $55! I don't know what the markup is, but it ios almost certainly in excess of 20%. Amazon INSISTS on a MINIMUM of 40%! So a $28 book costs them no more than $20! At 20%, that $70 would become $84.Hank! wrote:Really John that isn't outrageous, brands which are generally to be considered premium proteins hover around the 65-80 mark for 5lbs.askmass wrote:
It would cost us around $70 EACH to have 5 pounders of MASS PRO produced... Before adding a small resell mark up to pay the bills.
Not endorsing any of these but to illustrate a point
Isoflex $65 5lbs
XF 2.0 $30 2lbs
Vasolate $30 2lbs
Magnum Quattro $75 5lbs
I have reached a point where I dont buy the costco stuff anymore, I didnt love the flavor and it did upset my stomach. There isnt a 100% correlation between price and qulality, but its pretty darn close with proteins.
I do use a utility whey that i buy in bulk, but i keep high quality stuff around for specific purpose
I once had an accountant LAUGH at me because I only marked things up 14%! I marked them up 14%, instead of 15%, because I knew I could beat EVERYONE'S price. That was on canned software and hardware. Sadly, the whole environment changed when I went back in, and EVERYONE was CUT THROAT, later, and I couldn't compete. 8-(
Steve
What don't I understand?
I work in a business where we sell on margins under 1 point. And many times Amazon has better pricing , so I doubt they have a 40% markup
I didn't bring it up earlier , but we are not factoring in the economy of scale. Sure Glanbia can sell stuff cheaper, becuase they buy in so much mass. Not to mention price savings on larger containers (1 container vs 3)
I am not going to get in a pissing match. I simply pointed out that other companies sell 5lb buckets of protein for 69-75 bucks. Not everything that isnt MASS is shit.
I work in a business where we sell on margins under 1 point. And many times Amazon has better pricing , so I doubt they have a 40% markup
I didn't bring it up earlier , but we are not factoring in the economy of scale. Sure Glanbia can sell stuff cheaper, becuase they buy in so much mass. Not to mention price savings on larger containers (1 container vs 3)
I am not going to get in a pissing match. I simply pointed out that other companies sell 5lb buckets of protein for 69-75 bucks. Not everything that isnt MASS is shit.
Quoted for truth. John can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me as if the customer base for MASS is probably mostly repeat buyers with strong brand loyalty due to freshness and quality of product. For John to produce 100,000 2 pound tubs of MASS Pro and 100,000 5 pound tubs of the same is not reasonable with the size of his market.Hank! wrote: I didn't bring it up earlier , but we are not factoring in the economy of scale. Sure Glanbia can sell stuff cheaper, becuase they buy in so much mass. Not to mention price savings on larger containers (1 container vs 3)
I am not going to get in a pissing match. I simply pointed out that other companies sell 5lb buckets of protein for 69-75 bucks. Not everything that isnt MASS is shit.
For Glanbia/Optimum to produce 200,000 (total) tubs of protein, that would leave only ~33 tubs per continental US GNC location, certainly not enough to meet demand. We are speaking about a world of difference in terms of scale here. If MASS had the market share that a company like Glanbia has, they would probably be able to lower production cost by producing more product at one time, leaving it to retailers to shove off as opposed to the high quality control model that leaves them with a more expensive, albeit more reliable, high quality product.
It's simply a tradeoff. I'm happy to shell out the extra cash for a product I like and I'm more than willing to spend money with a company that I like. That being said, if I'm looking for a protein powder to suck down between meals simply to get some extra calories and protein into my diet, I'm probably going to avoid a powder that is just under one US dollar per serving when I'm going to be taking in two to four servings throughout the day, I don't have the income for that. When another company can sell me a 5 pound container of decent (certainly not high) quality protein for $50 and gives me a buy one, get one 50% off deal on top of a 20% savings overall, It's very difficult to justify spending nearly four dollars per day on something that is being used simply for extra calories (as opposed to a high quality protein that I am using to accelerate recovery) when I can spend about $1.50.
TL;DR:
There are many factors to consider and you should do whatever works for you so long as you can afford it.
"It seems to me as if the customer base for MASS is probably mostly repeat buyers with strong brand loyalty due to freshness and quality of product..."
THIS is why I pay, and good $$ for MassPro.
REASON: The protein you eat literally builds into your structure. You can make BIG mistakes with carbs/fats and correct them rather quickly.
Not so with protein. In one years time, MUCH of your body is re-built... from the protein you eat!! You want a house of BRICKS, not straw..
Worth every penny...
THIS is why I pay, and good $$ for MassPro.
REASON: The protein you eat literally builds into your structure. You can make BIG mistakes with carbs/fats and correct them rather quickly.
Not so with protein. In one years time, MUCH of your body is re-built... from the protein you eat!! You want a house of BRICKS, not straw..
Worth every penny...
-
dracotdrgn
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:05 pm
- Location: Tacoma, Washington
Hey guys, back from the depths here reading these posts. I have a guy in the gym swearing by this iso-pure stuff so I thought I'd come to my favorite discussion sight to find out the in ands outs of iso-pure.
Cant say my questions were completely answered, I was looking for purity and processing questions but..
I stand behind MassPro 100%. I laugh when guys in the gym talk about their proteins especially when their buying ON. I was there, any of my true friends will tell you I'm cheap and do a month of research before spending $100. I like to think I'm thrifty, quality driven and honestly besides samples and a gift of hemp proein (yuck) I use nothing but MassPro. Just wanted to bump this old post. Not because of the back and forth but because it is a hot and important topic. Best of luck to you all.
SWEAT WITH PRIDE!!
Cant say my questions were completely answered, I was looking for purity and processing questions but..
I stand behind MassPro 100%. I laugh when guys in the gym talk about their proteins especially when their buying ON. I was there, any of my true friends will tell you I'm cheap and do a month of research before spending $100. I like to think I'm thrifty, quality driven and honestly besides samples and a gift of hemp proein (yuck) I use nothing but MassPro. Just wanted to bump this old post. Not because of the back and forth but because it is a hot and important topic. Best of luck to you all.
SWEAT WITH PRIDE!!
WOW!
Missed the heated debate here (gratefully)?
Hank, I hope you didn't take too much offense. God I love you man, I hope you know that.
My preference for MASS's line is well known. Do I use other products? Absolutely! I've made this known prior and will continue to be transparent about such.
Let's be frank: Times are tough. I myself and struggling beyond words, as many of you are. Yet, I make due and patronize MASS for those specialty items I feel work the best for ME.
MassPro happens to be one of those, particularly in "The Formula". Does that mean it's right for you? Hell no!
I OPENLY refer people elsewhere, when I feel it's appropriate. I derive ZERO financial gain from ANY supplement referral to ANY company.
I want YOU to have every confidence that when YOU approach me about a supplement question/purchase, I will do my ABSOLUTE BEST to make the appropriate/best recommendation for YOU.
I guess in addition to quality, I value MASS's loyalty. John himself has recommended I NOT purchase some of his items on MORE than one occassion! The BP? Wouldn't exist if it were not for him. These boards? Ditto.
I try to take these things into consideration when opening my wallet. That doesn't mean you need to. I would NEVER dictate to ANYONE how or where to spend their dollars.
As far as Isopure goes, I've used it. It mixes well (real well) and is a quality ISOLATE. There are positives and negatives.
If the stuff they use to make it so soluble (believe some sort of silica or like substance) doesn't give you pause, drink up.
ONE SUGGESTION: Anyone doubts what it takes to make a quality, cold processed whey, call around. Set up a dummy company and call some wholesale distributors of whey.
What you'll find is everything from VERY cheap (unfiltered) whey with plenty of lactose, etc. up to the premium, cold processed, filtered and uber-quality analyzed organic whey concentrate/isolate. Let me know what the price difference is. I already know...
Now add in organic colostrum, the cost to include partially hydrolyzed whey, additional taurine/glutamine etc. and factor in the labeling, shipping etc..
There is a difference.
Will you grow 10x the amount of muscle from premium whey over time vs. cheapo whey? No, likely not. Will you grow more muscle, build more glutathione and reap the other health related/immune system benefits such a protein imparts?
Yes, it's my OPINION you will.
As always, it's up to you. Whatever decision you make - I RESPECT IT!
Missed the heated debate here (gratefully)?
Hank, I hope you didn't take too much offense. God I love you man, I hope you know that.
My preference for MASS's line is well known. Do I use other products? Absolutely! I've made this known prior and will continue to be transparent about such.
Let's be frank: Times are tough. I myself and struggling beyond words, as many of you are. Yet, I make due and patronize MASS for those specialty items I feel work the best for ME.
MassPro happens to be one of those, particularly in "The Formula". Does that mean it's right for you? Hell no!
I OPENLY refer people elsewhere, when I feel it's appropriate. I derive ZERO financial gain from ANY supplement referral to ANY company.
I want YOU to have every confidence that when YOU approach me about a supplement question/purchase, I will do my ABSOLUTE BEST to make the appropriate/best recommendation for YOU.
I guess in addition to quality, I value MASS's loyalty. John himself has recommended I NOT purchase some of his items on MORE than one occassion! The BP? Wouldn't exist if it were not for him. These boards? Ditto.
I try to take these things into consideration when opening my wallet. That doesn't mean you need to. I would NEVER dictate to ANYONE how or where to spend their dollars.
As far as Isopure goes, I've used it. It mixes well (real well) and is a quality ISOLATE. There are positives and negatives.
If the stuff they use to make it so soluble (believe some sort of silica or like substance) doesn't give you pause, drink up.
ONE SUGGESTION: Anyone doubts what it takes to make a quality, cold processed whey, call around. Set up a dummy company and call some wholesale distributors of whey.
What you'll find is everything from VERY cheap (unfiltered) whey with plenty of lactose, etc. up to the premium, cold processed, filtered and uber-quality analyzed organic whey concentrate/isolate. Let me know what the price difference is. I already know...
Now add in organic colostrum, the cost to include partially hydrolyzed whey, additional taurine/glutamine etc. and factor in the labeling, shipping etc..
There is a difference.
Will you grow 10x the amount of muscle from premium whey over time vs. cheapo whey? No, likely not. Will you grow more muscle, build more glutathione and reap the other health related/immune system benefits such a protein imparts?
Yes, it's my OPINION you will.
As always, it's up to you. Whatever decision you make - I RESPECT IT!
WOW!
Missed the heated debate here (gratefully)?
Hank, I hope you didn't take too much offense. God I love you man, I hope you know that.
My preference for MASS's line is well known. Do I use other products? Absolutely! I've made this known prior and will continue to be transparent about such.
Let's be frank: Times are tough. I myself and struggling beyond words, as many of you are. Yet, I make due and patronize MASS for those specialty items I feel work the best for ME.
MassPro happens to be one of those, particularly in "The Formula". Does that mean it's right for you? Hell no!
I OPENLY refer people elsewhere, when I feel it's appropriate. I derive ZERO financial gain from ANY supplement referral to ANY company.
I want YOU to have every confidence that when YOU approach me about a supplement question/purchase, I will do my ABSOLUTE BEST to make the appropriate/best recommendation for YOU.
I guess in addition to quality, I value MASS's loyalty. John himself has recommended I NOT purchase some of his items on MORE than one occassion! The BP? Wouldn't exist if it were not for him. These boards? Ditto.
I try to take these things into consideration when opening my wallet. That doesn't mean you need to. I would NEVER dictate to ANYONE how or where to spend their dollars.
As far as Isopure goes, I've used it. It mixes well (real well) and is a quality ISOLATE. There are positives and negatives.
If the stuff they use to make it so soluble (believe some sort of silica or like substance) doesn't give you pause, drink up.
ONE SUGGESTION: Anyone doubts what it takes to make a quality, cold processed whey, call around. Set up a dummy company and call some wholesale distributors of whey.
What you'll find is everything from VERY cheap (unfiltered) whey with plenty of lactose, etc. up to the premium, cold processed, filtered and uber-quality analyzed organic whey concentrate/isolate. Let me know what the price difference is. I already know...
Now add in organic colostrum, the cost to include partially hydrolyzed whey, additional taurine/glutamine etc. and factor in the labeling, shipping etc..
There is a difference.
Will you grow 10x the amount of muscle from premium whey over time vs. cheapo whey? No, likely not. Will you grow more muscle, build more glutathione and reap the other health related/immune system benefits such a protein imparts?
Yes, it's my OPINION you will.
As always, it's up to you. Whatever decision you make - I RESPECT IT!
Missed the heated debate here (gratefully)?
Hank, I hope you didn't take too much offense. God I love you man, I hope you know that.
My preference for MASS's line is well known. Do I use other products? Absolutely! I've made this known prior and will continue to be transparent about such.
Let's be frank: Times are tough. I myself and struggling beyond words, as many of you are. Yet, I make due and patronize MASS for those specialty items I feel work the best for ME.
MassPro happens to be one of those, particularly in "The Formula". Does that mean it's right for you? Hell no!
I OPENLY refer people elsewhere, when I feel it's appropriate. I derive ZERO financial gain from ANY supplement referral to ANY company.
I want YOU to have every confidence that when YOU approach me about a supplement question/purchase, I will do my ABSOLUTE BEST to make the appropriate/best recommendation for YOU.
I guess in addition to quality, I value MASS's loyalty. John himself has recommended I NOT purchase some of his items on MORE than one occassion! The BP? Wouldn't exist if it were not for him. These boards? Ditto.
I try to take these things into consideration when opening my wallet. That doesn't mean you need to. I would NEVER dictate to ANYONE how or where to spend their dollars.
As far as Isopure goes, I've used it. It mixes well (real well) and is a quality ISOLATE. There are positives and negatives.
If the stuff they use to make it so soluble (believe some sort of silica or like substance) doesn't give you pause, drink up.
ONE SUGGESTION: Anyone doubts what it takes to make a quality, cold processed whey, call around. Set up a dummy company and call some wholesale distributors of whey.
What you'll find is everything from VERY cheap (unfiltered) whey with plenty of lactose, etc. up to the premium, cold processed, filtered and uber-quality analyzed organic whey concentrate/isolate. Let me know what the price difference is. I already know...
Now add in organic colostrum, the cost to include partially hydrolyzed whey, additional taurine/glutamine etc. and factor in the labeling, shipping etc..
There is a difference.
Will you grow 10x the amount of muscle from premium whey over time vs. cheapo whey? No, likely not. Will you grow more muscle, build more glutathione and reap the other health related/immune system benefits such a protein imparts?
Yes, it's my OPINION you will.
As always, it's up to you. Whatever decision you make - I RESPECT IT!
Eh, I don't think it was all that heated, Rob, at least not in a negative way.
It may not quite meet "Roberts Rules of Order" standards, but it's a good and productive discussion IMO.
I love everyone here, and Hank is damn good people in my book no matter what protein he has in his pantry. And, he's right, just because something isn't a MASS branded product does not in any way automatically mean it is shit.
My strongest point was/is that it is not an issue of scale because the profits-rule-all corporate companies have no desire to use MASS PRO level ingredients and processing care - because if they did the end price would be MUCH higher than ours, no matter how much they were to have made in a years time.
They aim for the biggest slice of the pie and mine it for maximum profit, and that is not the MASS PRO (or Beverly to give another protein example) end of the market. Call it the serious athletes and hardcore health crowd, and we super serve it.
A big profit corporate company has so many dozens upon dozens of layers of expenses in creating awareness and sales, and distribution to the big pie crowd that any advantage of scale is washed away very early on in comparison to what we do.
That said, some might also be shocked at just how much MASS PRO is produced yearly, as well, and we have little to none of the fat cat corporate costs involved in attracting our consumers.
It's a bushel of organic apples compared to a bag of McDonalds apple pies comparison in a lot of ways.
We have said no to selling out the ingredient integrity to enter the "GNC arena" more times than I can count on my fingers over the years and are not about to start now.
It may not quite meet "Roberts Rules of Order" standards, but it's a good and productive discussion IMO.
I love everyone here, and Hank is damn good people in my book no matter what protein he has in his pantry. And, he's right, just because something isn't a MASS branded product does not in any way automatically mean it is shit.
My strongest point was/is that it is not an issue of scale because the profits-rule-all corporate companies have no desire to use MASS PRO level ingredients and processing care - because if they did the end price would be MUCH higher than ours, no matter how much they were to have made in a years time.
They aim for the biggest slice of the pie and mine it for maximum profit, and that is not the MASS PRO (or Beverly to give another protein example) end of the market. Call it the serious athletes and hardcore health crowd, and we super serve it.
A big profit corporate company has so many dozens upon dozens of layers of expenses in creating awareness and sales, and distribution to the big pie crowd that any advantage of scale is washed away very early on in comparison to what we do.
That said, some might also be shocked at just how much MASS PRO is produced yearly, as well, and we have little to none of the fat cat corporate costs involved in attracting our consumers.
It's a bushel of organic apples compared to a bag of McDonalds apple pies comparison in a lot of ways.
We have said no to selling out the ingredient integrity to enter the "GNC arena" more times than I can count on my fingers over the years and are not about to start now.
thanks guys for the good discussion here.
As time passes and my knowledge increases regarding the food and supplements we consume the more I realize that its really difficult to find sources that you can really trust.
Where I live the highest quality protein I can get (for a decent price, arround £50 for 4lbs) is CNP propeptide which claims to content undenature whey protein from high fraction. However, the amount is not that big as it contains mainly milk protein.
@askmass: what's your opinion on cnp propeptide?
is the whey in Mass pro coming from grass feed cows or grain feed?
really considering ordering some mass pro, only problem is that I need to dig into my savings
Sergio
As time passes and my knowledge increases regarding the food and supplements we consume the more I realize that its really difficult to find sources that you can really trust.
Where I live the highest quality protein I can get (for a decent price, arround £50 for 4lbs) is CNP propeptide which claims to content undenature whey protein from high fraction. However, the amount is not that big as it contains mainly milk protein.
@askmass: what's your opinion on cnp propeptide?
is the whey in Mass pro coming from grass feed cows or grain feed?
really considering ordering some mass pro, only problem is that I need to dig into my savings
Sergio
Grass fed, free roaming source on MASS PRO, Sergio.
I am not really familiar with CNP, but did pull it up and on the surface it looks OK. Not to say it looks great, not at all, but it appears better than some choices out there.
It is also listed on their site at right around the same price as MASS PRO for 2 pounds, so to me it's a very decisive win in the MP column.
We never try beat people over the head with hype trying to generate sales of MASS PRO. Word of mouth recommendations have given it amazing growth over the last 15 years and the quality/results speak for themselves.
Here's a funny aside- There is a very well known pro athlete who is paid to endorse a particular big name protein, but buys a case of MASS PRO from us every month and has for years. He's not alone, either.
It's like when several of the big time 60's IFBB guys were in the Weider mags, smiling with a jug of hyped garbage when Blair was what was really in their pantry.
I am not really familiar with CNP, but did pull it up and on the surface it looks OK. Not to say it looks great, not at all, but it appears better than some choices out there.
It is also listed on their site at right around the same price as MASS PRO for 2 pounds, so to me it's a very decisive win in the MP column.
We never try beat people over the head with hype trying to generate sales of MASS PRO. Word of mouth recommendations have given it amazing growth over the last 15 years and the quality/results speak for themselves.
Here's a funny aside- There is a very well known pro athlete who is paid to endorse a particular big name protein, but buys a case of MASS PRO from us every month and has for years. He's not alone, either.
It's like when several of the big time 60's IFBB guys were in the Weider mags, smiling with a jug of hyped garbage when Blair was what was really in their pantry.
thanks for the info!
I think that MASS PRO deserves a try
Sergio
I think that MASS PRO deserves a try
Sergio
askmass wrote:Grass fed, free roaming source on MASS PRO, Sergio.
I am not really familiar with CNP, but did pull it up and on the surface it looks OK. Not to say it looks great, not at all, but it appears better than some choices out there.
It is also listed on their site at right around the same price as MASS PRO for 2 pounds, so to me it's a very decisive win in the MP column.
We never try beat people over the head with hype trying to generate sales of MASS PRO. Word of mouth recommendations have given it amazing growth over the last 15 years and the quality/results speak for themselves.
Here's a funny aside- There is a very well known pro athlete who is paid to endorse a particular big name protein, but buys a case of MASS PRO from us every month and has for years. He's not alone, either.
It's like when several of the big time 60's IFBB guys were in the Weider mags, smiling with a jug of hyped garbage when Blair was what was really in their pantry.