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Perhaps Blanchdawg is speaking more along the lines of 'Adaptogen N' in particular as opposed to the generic term...?

Adaptogens (like Adaptogen N from bodybuildingsupplements.com) promotes protein systhesis through the increase in natural test production. AAS promote protein systhesis through synthetic test supplementation. When on AAS, natural production shuts down (because you are getting it from an outside source), hence testicular atrophy. As a general overview, these are two separate paths to gains - AAS simply works better (for gaining mass) because adaptogens can never incresase natural test production to a level equivalent to even mild doses of AAS. Make sense?

no it doesn't make sense.

Adaptogen N is a natural test booster (a combination of products SOME that boost test and SOME that are adaptogens).

Kre-anabolyn is the active adaptogen sold by muscle MASS.

Rob/someone with a lot more knowledge feel free to chime in, but AFAIK adaptogens do nothing to boost natural production of test, and if they do... its by far not its primary function.

unless i have missed something after all this time.

I think assmass is correct, I was referring to products like Adaptogen N. However, from a practical standpoint, if you are on good oil based AAS, there is no need to attempt to obtain more protein systhesis / recovery in my mind. AAS will take care of all that, and if you are not on orals you should not really be worried about liver damage.

If you are on AAS and don't see results, odds are you are on some bad stuff. On legit AAS you will realize it in only a matter of days. Considering that the average male produces only 50/mg of test per week and a low dose of AAS will put you at 250/mg per week, you can see why the gains are instant.

Were talking about ecdy and aas, not test boosters and aas

The thing about Adaptogen N is that it exerts such a wide spectrum of synergistic benefits for men.

It is a holistic, extremely synergistic and multi-faceted formula, fully by design.

In a way, the name "adaptogen" does not do it justice - or, is it that the more simplistic and weak herbals that tout the term don't deserve the tag?

Modesty aside, in my professional and personal opinion, it has no rival in the category.

The "ecdy" portion of it alone (an ultra potent 25:1 Suma Extract) is a case study of multi-faceted and unique benefits.

Askmass, isn't one of the primary benefits of Suma Extract the boost in natural testosterone production? As such, isn't the increase in protein systhesis from using Suma Extract a direct result of the testosterone increase?

My whole point was that these two options (AAS or Suma/ecdy) are different roads to the same result, albeit the AAS option has side-effects.

I just don't see the point in going down both roads at the same time, but I'd like to hear your thoughts. Would Suma even be able to keep the body's natural production of testosterone going when combined with AAS?

Stand alone Suma, even at Adaptogen N strength does not exert much of a direct impact on T levels. Not that 25:1 Suma isn't significantly anabolic in it's own right. And, for the record it DOES have a number of naturally occurring, very real hormone elements...

The way we've got the 25:1 interlaced to work in concert with the other, more direct test influences in Adaptogen N does elevate the overall effect, we are absolutely convinced.

Think of pre-cursor elements strengthening and combining with one another to create a much greater whole, timed to work in perfect harmony with the body's natural rhythm.

As far as using it in tandem with AAS...? I'll just say that Adaptogen N is a very popular post/between cycle item for a lot of guys who are in a competitive arena where juicing is part and parcel of the game.

blanchdawg wrote:Askmass, isn't one of the primary benefits of Suma Extract the boost in natural testosterone production? As such, isn't the increase in protein systhesis from using Suma Extract a direct result of the testosterone increase?

My whole point was that these two options (AAS or Suma/ecdy) are different roads to the same result, albeit the AAS option has side-effects.

I just don't see the point in going down both roads at the same time, but I'd like to hear your thoughts. Would Suma even be able to keep the body's natural production of testosterone going when combined with AAS?

from what i can tell you don't even understand how adaptogens work, adptogen N is just a name of a product, that doesn't even fall into that category, as i said its a natty test booster.

my advice would be to re-read the section on adaptogens (NOT adaptogen N) in the blueprint and it will clarify for you exactly what they do.

To clarify, Adaptogen N is BOTH a test booster and an adaptogen. It goes about this in the following ways:

Real (legit) Bulgarian Trib is used in the whopping dose of 1500mg. To this, the patented Longjax extract is added and a small amount of DHEA to ensure enough "starter" material for testosterone is present. Askmass would know more but here's how I speculate it works (and it does work as I have the bloodwork to back it up):

The trib boosts Leutinizing Hormone or the "signal" to your testicles to pump out more testosterone. To do this though, adquate DHEA needs to be present. That's why DHEA is in there. Longjax has evidence pointing to the fact that DHEA is preferentially converted to test (it can also be converted to estrogen!) so that's part of it's function. Finally, Longjax also ensures that a higher % of this test is "free" testosterone meaning not bound to SHBG (serum hormone binding globulin) - allowing it to bind with the receptor and being truly active.

Now, layered onto this is the custom 25:1 Suma Extract - in no small amount. Suma is right behind RCE IMO (a quality Suma, not this 5% crap that prevails in the market today) and it's loaded with Ecdy's and other beneficial adaptogens/nutrients such as Geranium. Outside the context of this writeup but it's a superb restorative agent.

The finishing touch is a small amount of Melatonin which as we all know, relaxes you and promotes deep sleep. It's also a superb anti-oxidant as the Life Extension Foundation rated it the #1 cost/effective anti-aging compound years ago. You grow when you sleep. Your hormone levels peak when you sleep, and you replenish/restore when you sleep. There is a study somewhere (I'll find it) that it also raises GH. Here it is..

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

Now Melatonin makes you groggy, so in this study they gave it to cyclists before hand. Could you take AN prior to a workout? Yes, with a strong cup of Joe/thermogenics I suppose as these gents suggest. However, I don't do this. I reserve its use strictly prior to bed with 5g of GammGH. That way, I get everything Adaptogen N brings to the table PLUS a 550% increase in GH as I slumber off to snore - land.

When you add it all up Adaptogen N gives you a great night's sleep, a nice boost in test and facilitates adaptation at a time when the body undergoes it's most productive growth period - sleep.

Little wonder this product has been a top seller for over what, 12 years is it now AskMass? Cookie, I think you're a big fan as are many others... including me.

We all have our favorites. Were it not for the emergence of Kre-Anabolyn as a true non-hormonal, I was prepared to build The Blueprint around Adaptogen N.

It's that good...

hehe Rob you managed to miss the point that i was saying adaptogens dont increase natural testosterone production, or if they do, its defiantly not their primary mechanism.

i would have thought the fact every adaptogen product has non-hormonal on it would have been a dead giveaway

Yes, I missed this: (NOT adaptogen N)

You are starting to sound like my supervisor at work

Sorry for diggin up all these old posts :p

I was just browsing through looking for some information I may have lost over the past year or so, and came across this and well I'm fascinated with AAS and all that stuff... sooo to the point:

Rob, in BP2.0 didn't you mention something how the soviets used Ecdy and AAS? not at the same time, but alternating? Can I get some more clarification on that? Has anything new been brought to light?

Thanks

beefcake66 wrote:Sorry for diggin up all these old posts :p

I was just browsing through looking for some information I may have lost over the past year or so, and came across this and well I'm fascinated with AAS and all that stuff... sooo to the point:

Rob, in BP2.0 didn't you mention something how the soviets used Ecdy and AAS? not at the same time, but alternating? Can I get some more clarification on that? Has anything new been brought to light?

Thanks

You're correct insofar as how that's how it was done, in the former USSR. They eloquently matched training loads to both drug/Ecdy intake when "off" - arriving at a savvy protocol that allowed them to retain most of their gains.

In this country, that concept is "new". For comparisons sake, while this was going on in the USSR American strength athletes (mostly bodybuilders) favored "bridging" modest Dbol, Test and Deca cycles with Anavar and later, Primo.

In the US, Anavar is long gone and in the new world, we have people (mostly on HRT) learning how Ecdy is the perfect "bridge" between cycles.

EXAMPLE: Listener Kahn Santori Davison wrote last week to me on www.superhumanradio.com saying he does just that stating

"I use Synthagen to bridge my HRT cycles. It usually helps me make a seamless transition..."

So while we're JUST now discovering what the former Soviet teams knew way back when, it's being refined as we speak. Concurrent use is being reported to impart its own benefits as this thread speaks to. Namely, the ability to use Ecdy/Synthagen and more favorably tolerate some VERY harsh androgens and/or use less of them to get better results.

Not an endorsement of such, but more and more are writing to report the same. I find it most intriguing...