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Coach Rob wrote:however how many reps am i going for here Rob with in this 30 seconds could you give me a range to work

15-20 to start, building up to 30 then increase the weight to get you back down to 15-20

You nailed it! Just like that.

teenphysique wrote:certainly the case Rob that first week of hunger hit hard however the muscle fullness hasnt come into play yet so that should happen very soon as ive logged this supplement 3 time already on predator so we shall see im hoping training picks up this week.

I always find that upon this the second week of progenadrex my strength dips and endurance dips but the weeks after are really good and i have no idea why this is but its happened every time

weight has increased a little around 213 -214.5lbs waist still hasnt moved so that good legs are looking like they are holding more water i wouldnt say fat because kclas havent been in that range plus the peptides encourage water retention but as soon as we hit the maintenance phase we drop that water and its all good.

Yeah, I was shocked how much weight those peptides added. I lost like 9lbs. You?

yeah im the same they certainly do put water on my chest i always notice this because it almost looks like gyno haha but `s soon as i drop it chest goes back to normal its real odd !

Okay so heres the update;

Weight has increased to 217 maybe the lecthin granuals and/or ghrp-6 either way im fucking heavier without doing much to calories waist i believe has decreased 0.5 inches but that will need to be clarified on a control day when i took that measurement i was rested and hadnt eaten so 2 factors that coiuld have changed the outcome.

stack 10 is moving nicely on my incline db press moved up a weight now so added set !

LATT sessions now heres the sticking point with me those 15rm deadlifts get real heavy second set and i think im overtraining so im taking the rest of this week off to recover and going to perform range of motion workouts .

I found this because today my lower back felt it and i couldnt get 4 reps with my previous 15rep max so i dropped the deadlifts for this week plus lets not forget i added an extra day of strong range partials to this phase of the programme so them rack pulls wont be doing justice either !

however the strong range partials increased a big jump with in a week-last week it increased 4-5 reps except on rack pulls so...theres another reason why i need to lay off .


too Add to this i got my blood levels checked with in the frist week of prgenadrex so it hadnt fully taken affect yet ! i was noticing for the past year ive been feeling lethargic in the day and i just ignored it, I was also developing more apparant mood swings from being Aggresive real easily , very sad , really energetic etc well now its exam time and the stress kicked on and made these worse I thought i would get my testosterone checked which i had to ask for!

Long behold im 19 with figure of 404ng/dl which the doctor said was fine ! for my age research shows it should be in the ranges of 700-900 ng/dl
and then every decade of age you lose 50ng/dl im around the so called 80 year old testosterone level which i think pretty much sums up why im feeling this way now there was the fact of libido which funnily enough all this time i thought was low becajse its not like it was when i was 13-15 years old i dont even maintain erections properly at bloody 19 -

now im not sure how to go about this as TRT, i dont think i want at this age id rather use transdermal dhea but would that help my overall test and free test without too many side effects i cant afford to run adaptpgen n for long enough because im in the UK but any o you guys got ny input on this ! WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT !

Okay so heres the update;

Weight has increased to 217 maybe the lecthin granuals and/or ghrp-6 either way im fucking heavier without doing much to calories waist i believe has decreased 0.5 inches but that will need to be clarified on a control day when i took that measurement i was rested and hadnt eaten so 2 factors that coiuld have changed the outcome.

stack 10 is moving nicely on my incline db press moved up a weight now so added set !

LATT sessions now heres the sticking point with me those 15rm deadlifts get real heavy second set and i think im overtraining so im taking the rest of this week off to recover and going to perform range of motion workouts .

I found this because today my lower back felt it and i couldnt get 4 reps with my previous 15rep max so i dropped the deadlifts for this week plus lets not forget i added an extra day of strong range partials to this phase of the programme so them rack pulls wont be doing justice either !

however the strong range partials increased a big jump with in a week-last week it increased 4-5 reps except on rack pulls so...theres another reason why i need to lay off .


too Add to this i got my blood levels checked with in the frist week of prgenadrex so it hadnt fully taken affect yet ! i was noticing for the past year ive been feeling lethargic in the day and i just ignored it, I was also developing more apparant mood swings from being Aggresive real easily , very sad , really energetic etc well now its exam time and the stress kicked on and made these worse I thought i would get my testosterone checked which i had to ask for!

Long behold im 19 with figure of 404ng/dl which the doctor said was fine ! for my age research shows it should be in the ranges of 700-900 ng/dl
and then every decade of age you lose 50ng/dl im around the so called 80 year old testosterone level which i think pretty much sums up why im feeling this way now there was the fact of libido which funnily enough all this time i thought was low becajse its not like it was when i was 13-15 years old i dont even maintain erections properly at bloody 19 -

now im not sure how to go about this as TRT, i dont think i want at this age id rather use transdermal dhea but would that help my overall test and free test without too many side effects i cant afford to run adaptpgen n for long enough because im in the UK but any o you guys got ny input on this ! WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT !

We have now transitioned to cruise phase so the summary of measurements i will post at the end of this 3 week phase where we then might have a couple of days off before then beginning my next planned programme

Strength increased weekly on my stack 10 days very nicely

LATT got easier in terms of breathing but jheez it was hard managed to get three rounds of it by the end of the six weeks, in week one we did 2 rounds !

Strong range partials increased as well weekly

good programme ! My next run of the 4.0 will be modified now to what i want to accomplish more so i will be ustilising the anabolic diet through out , the 6 week phase is targeted towards density training in different styles and strength

however the second phase ill be running a very strict recomp and this phase will be trageted towards lactic acid tolerance and v02 max however ill be running a loading pattern with in it to maintain/gain strength whilst i oxidise that fat mass as im using the anabolic diet to really boost it and supplementation to enhance that !

bare with me 2 weeks and ill summerise the whole programme of my 4.0 experience and then i will plan my second run which will be the most incredible programme ive ever looked at doing! More intense However We are introducing More Intense RECOVERY METHODS to deal with the stress oh yes we are going to get fucking big and alot leaner !

teenphysique, something elevated my total estrogen and I believe it's either oral pregnenolone or transdermal DHEA. As I recall, both are said to be unlikely suspects. I dropped both a couple weeks ago and will retest in 2-3 weeks. I also added in DIM (Nature's Way DIM-plus - 2 caps / 2x a day). Finally, I added Aggressive Strength, a t-booster by Mike Mahler given that my total T was around 600 and free T was a bit below normal. I am in my mid 30s.

I have used Aggressive Strength before and did not notice a difference, but I lack blood tests. I noticed that AAEFX's Test Charge Extreme (or some other superlative) caused a few pimples on my chest on two occasions when I tried it. Again, no blood tests.

I would try to get your T:E ratio by getting your estradiol tested, or total estrogens so you can see where you are with respect to the reference range even if most T:E ratios refer to estradiol. You might be aromatizing too much testosterone to estrogen, or by some other means your estrogen is high and telling your gonads through your pituitary to reduce sex hormone production. Fortunately, you - hell, I'll say we, are young and have time to figure this out.

I have started transdermal DHEA as of this morning ill be getting blood test done in about 6 weeks p.s the doctors wont give me any test's as i test normal so im having to buy them my self ill have a look into estrodiol tests and if its not much ill get a total testosterone level and estradiol check does that sound good?

cogrick2 wrote:teenphysique, something elevated my total estrogen and I believe it's either oral pregnenolone or transdermal DHEA. As I recall, both are said to be unlikely suspects.

...

Fortunately, you - hell, I'll say we, are young and have time to figure this out.

sht this may be way off topic but... wtf

In my experience, if you have ‘estrogen’ concerns - or for that matter, ANY hormonal balance concerns - due diligence would indicate checking out any possible endocrine disruptors in your life.

in a previous BP life (as BrainSquirt), I wrote some about this at https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/ ... =dim#23829
and in the Alt.Cruise.doc

The most reported impacts of endocrine disruptors regard synthetic or chemical xenoestrogens, which imitate estrogen. But these endocrine disruptors can also be involved in altering production, timing, organs and tissues that hormone ‘signal’, rate of hormone metabolism, influencing epigenetics, etc etc.

Most people discount the effects of endocrine disruptors because they believe their exposures are only occasional and are in safe, low doses - but hormones operate at very minute amounts to begin with and their balance can be disturbed even by low-dose exposure to hormonally-active chemicals. They are increasingly ubiquitous in our environment these days.

To list a few...in
the air
plastic containers, bags, wrappers, - think food and fast-food packaging
canned food liners
styrofoam cups and containers
toiletries and cosmetics
agricultural chemicals
non-organic meat and dairy
deodorants
laundry detergents
medical supplies
air fresheners
household cleaners,
... list not complete... and

( !! Not to mention) plain old fkn tap water is increasingly full of these ... plus an astounding po poree (sp) of hormone disrupting pharmaceutical ‘wastes’ , synthetic estrogen, etc

Then add a newer freakn compounding factor - The rising inclusion of microbeads in products which increases the absorption/ transport / and amplifies the effects of these chem. hormonal disruptors. Big name examples.
Proctor and Gamble ( includes Crest and Olay)
Johnson & Johnson ( includes Neutrogena and Aveeno)
L'Oreal ( includes Garnier and the Body Shop)
Proactiv
Nivea
Estee Lauder (eg Clinique)
...
plus discount lines from Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, etc

A partial list of hormone disruptors / estrogen balance factors (in alphabetical order) includes:

Amines -found as diethanolamine (DEA), triethanolamine (TEA), amonoethanolamine (MEA) on the ingredient label.
Arsenic
Atrazine
BPA
Cadmium
DEHP
Dioxin
Fire retardants: for ‘safety’ . TBBPA, etc etc
Glyphosate and compounds including Glycosates (ie Roundup): now found in ‘everything’ used as a desiccant prior to grain harvest, etc. etc.
Glycol ethers
Lead
Mercury
Methoxychlor
Nonylphenol or nonylphenol ethoxylates: found in commercial hair colors , dyes , laundry detergent, and household cleaners. found on the ingredient label as 4-nonylphenol, an alkylphenol. ...act like female estrogen in the body and can throw both the male and female body out of their natural hormone balance.
Organophosphate pesticides
Parabens: preservatives that are present in many body and hair care products. found on the ingredient label with the prefixes of "methyl," "ethyl," "propyl" and "butyl." etc
PCBs
PFCs
PFOA: think Scotchgard, Gore-Tex and Teflon
Perchlorate
Phthalates
Triclosan: antibacterial agent added to specially formulated soaps and hand sanitizers specifically marketed for antibacterial use. (got some in your workout room wipes yet??? )

Also, hormone disruption susceptibilities vary by individual. Some percentage of the population impacted by 1) Genes. For example: BRCA1/2 genes which involve environmentally influenced epigenetics 2) EMF sensitivity 3) non fermented soy and soy oil (which is in ‘everything’ with more than four things in the ingredients list on the grocery store aisle these days) 4) leptin issues 5) hops in beer. 6) ... etc. etc

omg

I appreciate your response, BrainSquirts. I do not think I could do much to reduce my exposure to these right now. For example, I usually use a natural deodorant free of those compounds but I could do a better job of buying organic meat.

However, there is one potentially huge exception: Before I stopped using the transdermal DHEA, I realized that the container in which I had this improvised version of Rob's formula (i.e., stuff not measured out well), the lid had dark stuff underneath. I think the aluminum lid had some kind of covering underneath, perhaps like the BPA-containing layer we read about as present in some aluminum cans, that reacted with the contents. I'm a little embarrassed to say I kept using the stuff until I decided wow, even the solution is dark now.

So at risk of derailing the thread, let me re-connect by saying to teenphysique, please watch your transdermal DHEA and its container to make sure nothing is potentially leaching and / or reacting.

Measurements from after famine to after cruise phase are ;

weight increase total (20.1 lbs)

Upper waist (1") could be lower latts bigger

Waist around belly button (0")

Middle thigh (1.5")
calve(0.5")

Arms(1.3")

Chest(1.5")

To be honest im very pleased with 4.0 i think for me personally i do better on a meteoric diet, holding water around my stomach and a bit too much chubb for my liking even though waist is the same , so im going to run a strict recomp in the second phase of my next BP4 run and the anabolic diet as i want less carbs as eating 450g of carbs is too difficult to get for me and i just prefer how i feel on a high fat diet in terms of the weekend carbs load makes my muscles full and good strength on heavy days .
so i think i will make more progress that way even though thats from january to now its great progress but...

im even more determined to do the next bp.4 run with my modifications to it just for the sake of what i like utilising some great density and strength programmes in the 1st phase

and i move home from uni so i will be cycleing 5 miles to the gym and back and i want to do more recovery methods like a chiropractor and more foam rolling , as well as active recovery so im going to be lsitening to body following at the start a mond wed friday split then i will be moving to a 1 day on 2 days off as intensity increases or even more, ill see what my body is capable of without jumping into overtraining/under-recovering , sleep should be alot better as well as i dont have exam stress or people going out when i try to sleep

peace out guys ill make another log if any of you are intersted over the next programme

ETA 1 WEEK BEFORE NEXT FAMINE STARTS AND LOG BEGINS

DAYM!

Strong work man, those are drug like gain in my book. Particularly in bodyweight, arms and legs. Wow.

Looking forward to you tweaking it now. Jesus, what a run..

Those are some great gains especially given the stable waist measurement. I'm curious to read how you feel going through famine given the daytime lethargy and mood swings you reported. Do you modify famine to tax your body less?

Not sure what you mean Cogrick about famine But modifying famine only coes down to doing 2 workouts not the three suggested

I usually feel
awful especially when training in that phase i lose alot of endurcance and strength only that phase though of course yeah being depleted would certainly spark lethargy .

This famine phase starting next week however will be a juice/ detox 5 day fast transitioning into the anabolic diet over the next famine ill be drinking excessive ammounts of water and foam rolling alot everyday and be taking epsom salt baths 1once a day im going to hopefully use the Probiotic kefir in matter 2003 posts

the goal of this next famine is to really just get rid of harbouring toxins and to get my digestive system firing on all cylinders (not that its not already)

come feast ill be loading on my beef aminos , meats and eggs and good oils going to get a chiropractor sorted out as well , ill be training bloody hard this next programme got kren anabolyn and synthagen on deck and using recovery methods such as foam rolling etc all the way through out

im also a fan of elliot hulse for you guys who know him ill be doing bioenergetics , open front breathing and corrective work through the hyperplasia phase stay tuned for more gains for that 9 week period and then after those phases ium going to be running a strict recomp pretty much a diet which is yet to be arrnaged going to work with Rob on that to maintain gains and shed alot of bodyfat with training methods like V02 max and latt but keeping strength implemented

im hoping the first 9 weeks i hit off some bodyfat with diet alone with fasted training ! probably run one of his fat loss supp stacks in the second 6 week phase (definitely)


if you have nay more questions just drop them below ill make them shorter above is merley an update on the plan!