Which ECDY?

the_buffer · Post by **the_buffer** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:45 am

Personally I've found recovery far best with ebol, no DOMS whatsoever. with KA recovery seems better than normal, but it took a few days longer for me to notice the effects. But I also found with ebol that I noticed it immediately when I stopped taking it, where KA seems to be a little more drawn out at the tail end too... at least for me.

there's a bit of buzz going around about ecdymorph, so I'm curious to see how that measures up.

DaCookie · Post by **DaCookie** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:57 pm

the_buffer wrote:Personally I've found recovery far best with ebol ecdy, no DOMS whatsoever. with KA recovery seems better than normal, but it took a few days longer for me to notice the effects. But I also found with ebol ecdy that I noticed it immediately when I stopped taking it, where KA seems to be a little more drawn out at the tail end too... at least for me.

there's a bit of buzz going around about ecdymorph, so I'm curious to see how that measures up.

Yes I noticed those e-bol effects also.I prefer the formula aswell although I wish the turk was higher.

Let me know if you try the ecdymorph, I would be pleased to know how you get on

DaCookie · Post by **DaCookie** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:59 pm

The humana sport is interesting, wanted to try that actually because it also has chicken embryo which I also wanted to try.Some people I like on nolinksplease.com say its good stuff-the chicken embryo

YouTube · Post by **askmass** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:18 pm

C'mon guys... no links, please.

We don't mind a fair minded discussion of competing items we don't stock (unlike most other supplement sponsored forums), but keep in mind that MUSCLE MASS does foot the bill for the server here.

Direct links could place us in a position of assumed endorsement or liability for other companies content and claims, and our legal eagle won't allow that to happen because we literally are not to be held responsible for what other supplement companies say and do.

Thanks, guys.

We really try to be fair and open minded and don't mind our products being compared to anything on the market, but overt promotion via links just isn't cool and also something we've been told to disallow by legal advisement.

the_buffer · Post by **the_buffer** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:13 pm

DaCookie wrote:The humana sport is interesting, wanted to try that actually because it also has chicken embryo which I also wanted to try.Some people I like on nolinksplease.com say its good stuff-the chicken embryo

Not available anymore as far as I know. I did buy a couple bottles of it when it was on whey cheap, and I think I actually mentioned it here in a post called "cheap ecdy", but was pretty much scoffed for the notion.

YouTube · Post by **askmass** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:24 am

Standardizing for 20-hydrox alone, especially from hard to source and very expensive legitimate RCE, makes absolutely no sense at all.

Chinese suppliers on the bulk market took to calling ANY Ecdy source "RCE" a couple years ago and they always tout various levels of 20-hydrox.

We have always refused to use any Chinese material in any of our products, period. It was fraudulent potency junk in the early creatine days, and it is worse still today. Often times full of risky contamination and chemical fakery.

https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/testing.html

Buyer beware.

DaCookie · Post by **DaCookie** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:19 pm

the_buffer wrote:
DaCookie wrote:The humana sport is interesting, wanted to try that actually because it also has chicken embryo which I also wanted to try.Some people I like on nolinksplease.com say its good stuff-the chicken embryo
Not available anymore as far as I know. I did buy a couple bottles of it when it was on whey cheap, and I think I actually mentioned it here in a post called "cheap ecdy", but was pretty much scoffed for the notion.

In fairness I dont get how just because an extract is supposedlt 1% stronger it means you can lessen the dose by 7-10times, sounds like bullshit

RobRegish · Post by **RobRegish** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:49 am

the_buffer wrote:
DaCookie wrote:The humana sport is interesting, wanted to try that actually because it also has chicken embryo which I also wanted to try.Some people I like on nolinksplease.com say its good stuff-the chicken embryo
Not available anymore as far as I know. I did buy a couple bottles of it when it was on whey cheap, and I think I actually mentioned it here in a post called "cheap ecdy", but was pretty much scoffed for the notion.

This product is junk, IMO. Let's do some math: Legit RCE is $2,000/kilo, likely more for companies that don't regularly order big runs of it.

Yet, humana sport here is selling it for pennies on the dollar? You can bet it's more Chinese bunk. Keep in mind these are the same clowns that slipped Melamine into infant formula TWICE. The first time, babies DIED in this country yet they STILL did it again after that happened.

Whole lotta' people shopped on price thinking they struck gold. They sure did..... fool's gold.

beefcake66 · Post by **beefcake66** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:13 am

DaCookie wrote:The humana sport is interesting, wanted to try that actually because it also has chicken embryo which I also wanted to try.Some people I like on nolinksplease.com say its good stuff-the chicken embryo

I used HumanaSport on my first run; I still have 3 unopened bottles at home (bought 5 on a whey cheap deal)... I can't really say if it helped for sure but my first full run was pretty successful so it must've.

In my next run I may use it again because I have so much left over, I'll probably either dose it like Kre-Anabolyn or double the dose stated on the HumanaSport bottle (i was doing 3-4 pills a day with it, anyways)...

DaCookie · Post by **DaCookie** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:10 pm

Let me know how you get on

beefcake66 · Post by **beefcake66** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:25 pm

I'm only half way through the run I'm on now so it might be a little while... early may is probably the next run

DaCookie · Post by **DaCookie** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:35 am

Aight sounds good

the_buffer · Post by **the_buffer** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:33 pm

If it is Chinese Junk they're doing a hell of a job to convince people otherwise. Here's their writeup on RCE.

Ingredient Source

EcdyMorph (99% 20-hydroxyecdysone) is extracted from the herbaceous perennial plant Rhaponticum Carthamoides. The same plant source used in human and animal studies . Most ecdysterone products sold in the market today use an extract derived from Cyanotis Vaga. This is a much cheaper extract and is usually only standardized to 40-70% 20-Hydroxecdysone.

Extraction Method

EcdyMorph is produced using an extensive series of procedures to reach a purity of 99% 20-hydroxyecdysone. The final step in the process is super critical CO² extraction. This process creates material in a crystalline form. This formation of crystals differentiates EcdyMorph from other ecdysterone extracts. The difference can be seen using X-ray crystallography. This may explain why a 20-hydroxyecdysone extract with puritiy greater than 99% can be considerbly more effective than a slightly less pure extract.

Ecdymorph Dosing

There is controversy as to how much ecdysterone someone must consume to obtain desired results. The debate has risen due to the various extracts that have been used in the many different ecdysterone containing products. The quality of the ecdysterone extract greatly influences effectiveness. We have found that a 20 mg dose off a 99% 20hydroxyecdysone in crystalline form is effective and should be taken two to threes times a day. Ecdysterone has a relatively short half life, so frequent dosing is necessary. Many companies using a cheaper, lesser pure extracts suggest consumers to take much higher amounts to receive benefits. We are convinced that 20 mg of EcdyMorph is more beneficial than several hundred milligrams of a Cyanotis Vaga ecdysterone extract.

The Science and Clinical Studies

Phytoecdysteroids, which are structurally identical to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. They also have been reported to have effects in lowering of cholesterol, and management of healthy blood glucose levels.

There have not been numerous human studies done on ecdysterone . More importantly, very few studies have been conducted using a 99% 20-hydroxyecdysone extract. There is a particular study done with athletes published in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. It was titled: “Effects of Methoxyisoflavone, Ecdysterone, and Sulfo-Polysaccharide Supplementation on Training Adaptations in Resistance-Trained Males”. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129166/ This was a very disappointing study. This study was most likely designed to discredit the effectiveness of ecdysterone as a nutritional supplement. They used a cheap ecdysterone extract and had the athletes take one single dose daily. The study was designed to fail and was most likely funded by a company that didn't have ecdysterone in their product line. At the time of the study there were a couple good ecdysterone products available that contained a 97% 20-hydroxyecdysone. These product were effective at dose ranging from 10-20 mg.

There have been two recent studies with a 99% 20-Hydroxyecdysone on mice suggesting its ability to increase muscle protein synthesis, reducing body fat, and produce an anti-diabetic effect. The studies are very interesting and can be found on the internet. The studies are listed below.

20-Hydroxyecdysone increases fiber size in a muscle-specific fashion in rat. Phytomedicine: International Journal of Phytotherapy & Phytopharmacology; September 1, 2008, Volume: 15 Issue: 9 Page: 691(8)
20-Hydroxyecdysone decreases weight and hyperglycemia in a diet-induced obesity mice model. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 296:433-439, 2009.

The results of these studies were very impressive. We realize that consumers are not Rodentia, but the findings support anecdotal evidence collected throughout the years from consumers who used products containing Ecdymorph (99% 20-hydroxyecdysone).

The most interesting study with ecdysteroids done to date was published in 2008. Phytoecdysteroids Increase Protein Synthesis in Skeletal Muscle Cells. J. Agric. Food Chem. 2008, 56, 3532–3537. This study not only measured an increase in protein synthesis, but also suggested how ecdysteroids work. The conclusion of the study: "In mammals, which seem to lack homologous receptors, the molecular mechanisms of ecdysteroid action are still unknown. Although our findings suggest that ecdysteroids may be mediated by a pathway that converges on the PI3K pathway, rather than on the androgen receptor pathway, more study is needed to confirm this hypothesis".

YouTube · Post by **askmass** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:56 pm

Anyone with real knowledge of the complexity, cost and efficacy of legitimate full spectrum RCE would have to be out of their minds to isolate it down to 99% 20-hydrox and nothing else.

If they are seriously doing that, then they might as well use cheap CY as their starter base material.

The Chinese stuff is all CY, but they brand it as RCE and get away with it over there. Dirt cheap. They always tout a high 20-hydrox content, which is a dead giveaway.

****

Real Leuzea Rhaponticum Carthamoides 98% is expensive; it can cost over $2,000 per kilo. Most other ecdysterone supplements contain Chinese material from totally different plants (Cyanotis Vaga, for instance) or synthetic ecdysterone "isolates". In comparison, these types of ecdy supplements are cheap at $300 or less per kilo. Worse yet, quite a number of these products falsely (mis)apply the positive studies conducted specifically on Leuzea Rhaponticum Carthamoides as found in Kre-Anabolyn. Be it by ignorance, or outright deceit, it is a fact that knock-off ecdysterone supplements are NOT interchangeable and have NO valid claim of connection to the impressive Leuzea human clinical trials. For more on this critical distinction and other compelling findings, we turn to translations from Dr. Zakir Ramazanov, who has a vast and studied knowledge of the 25+ years of research on Leuzea;

• "Only Rhaponticum has undergone complete human clinical trials and study. Research pointed out the superior anabolic effect of Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract rather than single 20-beta-ecdysterone, which is abundant in plants outside the Rhaponticum genus. Use of 20-beta-ecdysterone content, as an indication of superiority of one isolate over another is just the simple old attempt to substitute original Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract with inferior plant extract."

• "Research indicates that the whole extract of Leuzea Rhaponticum Carthamoides containing all levseins (representing a complex of more than 10 ecdysterones) exerts a much superior physiological activity compared with individual constituents." (Seifulla 1999)

• "Leuzea extract stimulates muscle protein synthesis by increasing the activity of polyribosomes. Polyribosomes are the cellular compartments where the actual protein synthesis takes place. Researchers extracted and purified various ecdysteroids from Leuzea and found that the ecdysteroids increased the mass in a dose-dependent manner, with the rate of increase proportional to the ecdysteroids content. It was evident that the plethora of growth-promoting, vitamin-like effects induced by Leuzea is mediated by ecdysteroids. However it is important to point out that the mixture of all ecdysterones was found to be responsible for enhancement of muscle protein synthesis."

More, here- https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/leuzea_ecdy.html