I've been getting some PM's about BA lately so I thought I'd expound upon it a bit.
There is some supporting evidence for BA in the literature, some conflicting info and some mixed real world feedback. My thoughts on BA in the Blueprint still stand, but I'd like to throw this out for discussion.
BA is effective at accumulating in muscle tissue and acting as an intra-cellular "buffer". In the real world, it's supposed to allow you to add an extra rep or two, which clearly would be beneficial. The issue is, it takes a LONG time for BA levels to build up to a level where it makes a noticeable impact. Up to 12 weeks according to the latest studies.
Nevertheless, I speculate there are ways to expedite its accumulation in muscle. If so interested, I'd load it in the Feast Phase at 10g/day with your carbohydrate/sodium rich meals. There is evidence that insulin drives more into muscle tissue faster and like creatine, I suspect a sodium transport mechanism as well. It is not recommended at any other time due to the fact improved intracellular buffers would be the wrong signal to send during the Famine Phase and it could work against us there.
Overall, I don't think BA should be at the top of the list for use in The Blueprint. While it's far from a "scam" supplement I don't see it offering nearly as much as Kre-Anabolyn/Adaptogen N or BCAA's while alkalizing one's system. If you do decide to give it a whirl, please post your experiences here such that we can all learn..
Beta-Alanine
To give a little insight from my vantage point on BA; As we do with many ingredients that hit the scene to large hype, we bought a bunch of Beta-Alanine when it first arrived and ran simple trials among our staff and local lifters/MMA fighters to see "is there anything to this stuff".
The results were less than impressive. So much so from a cost-to-benefit ratio that we deemed it a dud as far as considering adding it to our line.
I'm not saying it's completely worthless, because it's not. You'll never see us offer it, however, as it didn't get over our first qualifying hurtle.
Having said that, I believe Rob may have hit on something in regards to it needing to be within a targeted/specific complex that maximizes it's benefits. I'd not hold my breath for any of the GNC suppliers to legitimately formulate one, but may pass along a "what if" challenge to a couple chemist friends to see if it's worth the research work in their opinion.
The results were less than impressive. So much so from a cost-to-benefit ratio that we deemed it a dud as far as considering adding it to our line.
I'm not saying it's completely worthless, because it's not. You'll never see us offer it, however, as it didn't get over our first qualifying hurtle.
Having said that, I believe Rob may have hit on something in regards to it needing to be within a targeted/specific complex that maximizes it's benefits. I'd not hold my breath for any of the GNC suppliers to legitimately formulate one, but may pass along a "what if" challenge to a couple chemist friends to see if it's worth the research work in their opinion.
Found this old thread using the search function....
So I'm finishing up my third bp3 run and entering 3 weeks of cruise. What does this have to do with beta-alanine? It happens to be that I have a big jar of it in my cupboard here and heck I might as well use it, no? The internet tells me that 3-4 weeks of loading with 6g daily is recommended and then going with 3g / day. The plan then is to start loading now as I enter cruise + keep loading during the famine.. just will this interfere with the famine somehow?
Reading https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22928989 says supplementing with BA improves performance in "YoYo intermittent recovery test." Tbh. I didn't actually bother to read the study just yet so I don't quite know what the YoYo recovery test is but anything that improves recovery in any way seems less than ideal for famine.
Some other study mentioned that BA seemed to increase time before neuromuscular fatigue.. again this seems like something I don't quite want during famine.
Perhaps I am better off just skipping the loading and adding 10g of it to the 3.0 formula?
summary: start loading BA during cruise or go with 10g extra in the formula?[/url]
So I'm finishing up my third bp3 run and entering 3 weeks of cruise. What does this have to do with beta-alanine? It happens to be that I have a big jar of it in my cupboard here and heck I might as well use it, no? The internet tells me that 3-4 weeks of loading with 6g daily is recommended and then going with 3g / day. The plan then is to start loading now as I enter cruise + keep loading during the famine.. just will this interfere with the famine somehow?
Reading https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22928989 says supplementing with BA improves performance in "YoYo intermittent recovery test." Tbh. I didn't actually bother to read the study just yet so I don't quite know what the YoYo recovery test is but anything that improves recovery in any way seems less than ideal for famine.
Some other study mentioned that BA seemed to increase time before neuromuscular fatigue.. again this seems like something I don't quite want during famine.
Perhaps I am better off just skipping the loading and adding 10g of it to the 3.0 formula?
summary: start loading BA during cruise or go with 10g extra in the formula?[/url]
Wow, I think you just pulled up the spark from 2009 that grew to become a big part of MASS PRO SYNTHAGEN years later!askmass wrote:I believe Rob may have hit on something in regards to it needing to be within a targeted/specific complex that maximizes it's benefits. I'd not hold my breath for any of the GNC suppliers to legitimately formulate one, but may pass along a "what if" challenge to a couple chemist friends to see if it's worth the research work in their opinion.
Rob did indeed take up the challenge, and was converted to the point of being insistent that BA be a part of MPS when we got down to serious formulating.
He will probably chime in here with specifics for you, Marcus, but this is the relevant write up on BA in the Synthagen overview-
https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/MASS_PRO_Synthagen_ProtoGeneX.html wrote: The right way to supplement Beta-Alanine...
Much has been made recently of Beta-Alanine (BA), the precursor to carnosine and its ability to "buffer" pH - leading to better muscular endurance. Once again, the Russians were way ahead of the game - identifying carnosine and its benefits as long ago as 1900.
Nevertheless, when you study BA and its ultimate metabolic fate, you'll notice something - something others have missed. Greater muscle carnosine levels are not BA's only benefit, because it's yet another powerful substrate that can be used to accelerate protein synthesis.
Here was the clue, leading to that observation:
"Subsequent to an RNA synthesis inhibitor (6-azauraci) being given to animals used in the experiment, an enormous increase in BA uptake (70%) and corresponding increase in carnosine synthesis takes place in the muscle cell..." (19)
(19) Aonuma S, Hama T, Tamaki N, Okumura H. (1969) Orotate as a -alanine donor for anserine and carnosine biosynthesis and effects of actinomycin D and azauracil on their pathway. J.Biochem. 66: 123-133.
What does this tell us?
It demonstrates that ß-Alanine CAN be used for RNA/greater protein synthesis and ultimately more muscle. The operative word here is "can". In other formulas, the contribution BA can make is limited, given it's usually used only to boost carnosine concentrations. Its ability to play a role in accelerating muscle growth is therefore limited, if non-existent.
It stands to reason that if growing new muscle is way down on your body's priority list (and it is, from your body's perspective), the majority of BA provided in most supplements will NOT be used to grow muscle.
Instead, it will combine with the amino acid L-Histidine to form Carnosine. Recall L-Histidine is one of the essential amino acids, and a deficiency of just one EAA stops protein synthesis in its tracks. In the typical standalone Beta-Alanine supplement example, protein synthesis takes it on the chin not once, but twice. First, BA is not made available for use as an RNA substrate, plus L-Histidine isn't included for incorporation into building new contractile muscle proteins.
The ideal then, is to boost Carnosine independently of Beta-Alanine, where you can realize the performance enhancement and muscle growth benefits of each. In fact, research has indicated that the combination of Carnosine and Beta-Alanine offers even MORE to the athlete than previously elucidated: Two very desireable benefits - It promotes tissue repair and also accelerates wound healing (20).
(20) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3095942
With this strategy set, you'll no longer have to settle for just 1/3rd of what ß-Alanine has to offer. Instead, the MASS PRO Synthagen formula allows you to have it ALL-
• The well established pH buffering/better endurance benefits via muscle carnosine increases
• Accelerated tissue repair and wound healing
• ß-Alanine now being in the correct environment for accelerated protein synthesis
BOTTOM LINE: MASS PRO Synthagen elevates muscle carnosine concentrations via a different nutraceutical, to free up Beta-Alanine for a higher purpose - accelerated protein synthesis.
Yeah, this one touched a nerve. Allow me to explain...
I wasn't impressed (and I'm still not) in the way BA is CONVENTIONALLY used in virtually every formula out there. Here's why...
I dosed the bulk products HEAVY, I dosed the "finished" products light and heavy and... I didn't see much. I'm still of the opinion that "the tingles" sell this product more than anything else. You can "feel it working", you know? LOL. Do a shot of cayenne pepper, you'll feel that working too.
Let's talk about the downside of all this BA.
BA has to combine with L-histidine (an Essential Amino Acid), to for Carnosine. OK, sounds good. You now can do a few more reps before the muscle's pH gets out of whack, causing it to shut down. You can do the same thing with Arm and Hammer baking soda, or IP-6.
Further, once L-histidine is pulled out of circulation - it's NOT available for recovery/repair and re-building thicker and stronger muscles. In Synthagen, I elected to use Orotic Acid to boost BOTH BA and CARNOSINE independently of BA, then layered in BA for a higher purpose - to serve as a substrate for RNA production.
And you need LOTS of RNA in the ribsome to construct new muscle. Transfer RNA (tRNA), messenger RNA (mRNA) etc.. That study showing a HUGE uptake of BA into muscle when a RNA synthesis inhibitor was co-administered demonstrates just how much BA is being syphoned off for this purpose.
Don't get robbed - Get all the BA and Carnosine you can jam into muscle via Synthagen's OA + precise amount of BA combo for greater RNA production and muscle growth.
Just my $.02, but the intelligent way to supplement BA isn't boat-loading it. If you REALLY study it, the way the body goes about recovering from exercise and then growing new muscle tissue is a symphony. And no one instrument, makes a symphony that results in a masterpiece.
Synthagen results in that masterpiece...
I wasn't impressed (and I'm still not) in the way BA is CONVENTIONALLY used in virtually every formula out there. Here's why...
I dosed the bulk products HEAVY, I dosed the "finished" products light and heavy and... I didn't see much. I'm still of the opinion that "the tingles" sell this product more than anything else. You can "feel it working", you know? LOL. Do a shot of cayenne pepper, you'll feel that working too.
Let's talk about the downside of all this BA.
BA has to combine with L-histidine (an Essential Amino Acid), to for Carnosine. OK, sounds good. You now can do a few more reps before the muscle's pH gets out of whack, causing it to shut down. You can do the same thing with Arm and Hammer baking soda, or IP-6.
Further, once L-histidine is pulled out of circulation - it's NOT available for recovery/repair and re-building thicker and stronger muscles. In Synthagen, I elected to use Orotic Acid to boost BOTH BA and CARNOSINE independently of BA, then layered in BA for a higher purpose - to serve as a substrate for RNA production.
And you need LOTS of RNA in the ribsome to construct new muscle. Transfer RNA (tRNA), messenger RNA (mRNA) etc.. That study showing a HUGE uptake of BA into muscle when a RNA synthesis inhibitor was co-administered demonstrates just how much BA is being syphoned off for this purpose.
Don't get robbed - Get all the BA and Carnosine you can jam into muscle via Synthagen's OA + precise amount of BA combo for greater RNA production and muscle growth.
Just my $.02, but the intelligent way to supplement BA isn't boat-loading it. If you REALLY study it, the way the body goes about recovering from exercise and then growing new muscle tissue is a symphony. And no one instrument, makes a symphony that results in a masterpiece.
Synthagen results in that masterpiece...
Oh ya, my bad. I should have clarified. I am not using MPS. Will start hitting that baby up next year.askmass wrote:Not to answer for Rob as he is Mr. BP, but if you are using MPS I would not add any additional BA concurrent because the ratio he tested out as best for the Synthagen complex is very specific and set.
Oh ya, my bad. I should have clarified. I am not using MPS. Will start hitting that baby up next year.[/quote]
next year?
why to wait that long? I just got my MPS twin pack all the way to Finland directly from MASS. It came rather quickly and without any problems.
Rob just disclosed a new discount/voucher in superhumanradio if you are interested...
next year?
why to wait that long? I just got my MPS twin pack all the way to Finland directly from MASS. It came rather quickly and without any problems.
Rob just disclosed a new discount/voucher in superhumanradio if you are interested...