I dont think there is much difference because I think I was given the same link and its taken in the same mannercoontentment wrote:is there much difference between hydrolysed whey and hydrolysed casein? i remember one earlier bp link i was given referred me to hydrolysed casein.RobRegish wrote:There IS merit to a hydrolyzed whey IMO BUT, please consider the following:
One example.. when you hydrolyze a protein you destroy ALL growth
factors. That's just one (of many). You do gain in other areas with a 100% hydrolyzed.
Final call: Try BOTH to see which work best for you!
EDIT: When Dr. Connelly gets here, we're all going to get taken to school on this, amongst other topics...
Getting some Hydrolyzed Whey
Re: whey or casein?
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beefcake66
- Posts: 594
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:51 am
Re: Getting some Hydrolyzed Whey
Since there's a lot of protein/hydro threads, I'll just leave this here..
I ordered from true protein and made this custom mix:
40% Hydrolyzed Whey Super Grade
20% L-Leucine
10% Gemma Protein Pea Isolate
10% Rice Protein Concentrate
10% Fructose
5% BCAA
5% EAA
I asked to have it double-flavored (which I'm pretty sure they did for me!)
I have two flavors but I've only tried one so far... Peanut Butter and Jelly. I don't taste peanut butter in it, mostly tastes like the Jelly haha.
It mixes fine, doesn't taste terrible, but it's not one of those delicious "omg I love it!!" drinks... not a noticeable bitter taste, and it mixed FINE (a little foamy but thats no biggie for me).
I added Waxy Maize and some strawberry flavored BCAA's to it and it tasted like gritty-powdered jelly-flavored drink.
The other flavor I have is Double Chocolate Mint, I'll post up my thoughts on it when I get to try it.
But so far, with that mix, it seems alright. The Super Grade Hydro is not as high quality as the High Grade Hydrolyzed whey, I think, but it doesn't carry the "WARNING: SUPER BITTER" either.
the BCAA mix I have doesn't dissolve super well (always can see floaties, can't taste/feel them though); so I didn't even notice if the Leucine/BCAAs/EAAs didn't dissolve fully. I just used a shaker cup and voila, no problems.
So...
Next time I think I'm going to do something like 60% Hydro Whey Super Grade, 20% L-Leucine, 10% EAA's and 10% Fructose.
sammm wrote:2. If ordering from TrueProtein, what is a good custom mix combo?
I ordered from true protein and made this custom mix:
40% Hydrolyzed Whey Super Grade
20% L-Leucine
10% Gemma Protein Pea Isolate
10% Rice Protein Concentrate
10% Fructose
5% BCAA
5% EAA
I asked to have it double-flavored (which I'm pretty sure they did for me!)
I have two flavors but I've only tried one so far... Peanut Butter and Jelly. I don't taste peanut butter in it, mostly tastes like the Jelly haha.
It mixes fine, doesn't taste terrible, but it's not one of those delicious "omg I love it!!" drinks... not a noticeable bitter taste, and it mixed FINE (a little foamy but thats no biggie for me).
I added Waxy Maize and some strawberry flavored BCAA's to it and it tasted like gritty-powdered jelly-flavored drink.
The other flavor I have is Double Chocolate Mint, I'll post up my thoughts on it when I get to try it.
But so far, with that mix, it seems alright. The Super Grade Hydro is not as high quality as the High Grade Hydrolyzed whey, I think, but it doesn't carry the "WARNING: SUPER BITTER" either.
the BCAA mix I have doesn't dissolve super well (always can see floaties, can't taste/feel them though); so I didn't even notice if the Leucine/BCAAs/EAAs didn't dissolve fully. I just used a shaker cup and voila, no problems.
So...
Next time I think I'm going to do something like 60% Hydro Whey Super Grade, 20% L-Leucine, 10% EAA's and 10% Fructose.
"I added Waxy Maize...."
Careful there. Here's why...
Up until just recently, carbohydrate powders have imparted modest improvements over whole foods. Such was the case with maltodextrin, usually derived from corn. You're no doubt familiar with it due to it's inclusion in various "weight gainers", "MRP's" etc..
After being isolated, its cut into a length somewhere between a simple sugar and a full starch. The shorter versions lend themselves better to drink mixes as they're more soluble and sweeter.
Prior to the early 1980's, maltodextrin really wasn't prevalent in our little world. The primary exposure you had to them was on the back of a postage stamp. They were used mostly as binders, fillers and glues. It was Mike Zumpano (of Underground Steroid Handbook fame) working first with the Weider group and later Unipro who came across a most interesting discovery; certain maltodextrins were a hybrid of both a starch and a sugar that lent themselves to the best qualities of both. This was a significant finding...
When Unipro rolled out its Carboplex product it didn't just gain instant popularity in bodybuilding, but mainstream food preparations as well. At your local supermarket today, you'll find it in all kinds of sports drinks, cocoa, baked goods and even baby food (maltodextrins of various sorts).
The chief problem with these products is twofold. First, you never know quite what length the starch has been cut to. They can be as short as 3 glucose molecules or as long as cornstarch. In fact, much of the waxy maize being sold is just that - pure cornstarch.
Second (and related) these anomolies can result in anything from a very quick rise in blood sugar to a very prolonged curve seen when testing one's blood sugar via glucometer (more on that later). You'll see a pretty strong dropoff in blood sugar after consuming most maltodextrins in the amount of 50g at the 2 hour mark. This isn't ideal for our purposes as the window of opportunity we seek to exploit is far shorter.
The real solution was the creation of a new class of soluble starches called amylopectins. These address the severe drop in blood sugar by selectively tailoring the lengths of said starches to optimize the time spent just prior to, during and immediately after the workout. For it is during this time that these genetically modified starches can have a drug like impact. Starting material is not just one type of starch, but two others. A mix of all 3 was found to best leverage its rapid and sustained mode of action.
These heavy molecular mass polysaccarides mix VERY easily in water, absorb much faster than sugars and don't bloat you. The end result is a largely complex carb, yet is made up of many polysaccharides joined together by bonds. Molecular weights have been carefully tailored to ensure absorption is much faster than any other maltodextrin, waxy maize or whole food/juice alternative.
By virtue of a lightening quick gastric emptying rate, the amylopectins hit the blood stream quicker and are absorbed as glycogen. Therafter, they work almost like an IV drip, supplying even more energy to the body.
Dan Duchaine himself was onto this as long ago as the early 1990's in his excellent tome, "BodyOpus", stating "The ideal is a highly refined amylopectin preparation, not yet commercially available".
Well, Dan may be gone but he's likely looking down (or is it up?) smiling, knowing that they're now available.
That's what a guy named "Mixelflick" who wrote a book called, "The Blueprint" told me anyway......
Careful there. Here's why...
Up until just recently, carbohydrate powders have imparted modest improvements over whole foods. Such was the case with maltodextrin, usually derived from corn. You're no doubt familiar with it due to it's inclusion in various "weight gainers", "MRP's" etc..
After being isolated, its cut into a length somewhere between a simple sugar and a full starch. The shorter versions lend themselves better to drink mixes as they're more soluble and sweeter.
Prior to the early 1980's, maltodextrin really wasn't prevalent in our little world. The primary exposure you had to them was on the back of a postage stamp. They were used mostly as binders, fillers and glues. It was Mike Zumpano (of Underground Steroid Handbook fame) working first with the Weider group and later Unipro who came across a most interesting discovery; certain maltodextrins were a hybrid of both a starch and a sugar that lent themselves to the best qualities of both. This was a significant finding...
When Unipro rolled out its Carboplex product it didn't just gain instant popularity in bodybuilding, but mainstream food preparations as well. At your local supermarket today, you'll find it in all kinds of sports drinks, cocoa, baked goods and even baby food (maltodextrins of various sorts).
The chief problem with these products is twofold. First, you never know quite what length the starch has been cut to. They can be as short as 3 glucose molecules or as long as cornstarch. In fact, much of the waxy maize being sold is just that - pure cornstarch.
Second (and related) these anomolies can result in anything from a very quick rise in blood sugar to a very prolonged curve seen when testing one's blood sugar via glucometer (more on that later). You'll see a pretty strong dropoff in blood sugar after consuming most maltodextrins in the amount of 50g at the 2 hour mark. This isn't ideal for our purposes as the window of opportunity we seek to exploit is far shorter.
The real solution was the creation of a new class of soluble starches called amylopectins. These address the severe drop in blood sugar by selectively tailoring the lengths of said starches to optimize the time spent just prior to, during and immediately after the workout. For it is during this time that these genetically modified starches can have a drug like impact. Starting material is not just one type of starch, but two others. A mix of all 3 was found to best leverage its rapid and sustained mode of action.
These heavy molecular mass polysaccarides mix VERY easily in water, absorb much faster than sugars and don't bloat you. The end result is a largely complex carb, yet is made up of many polysaccharides joined together by bonds. Molecular weights have been carefully tailored to ensure absorption is much faster than any other maltodextrin, waxy maize or whole food/juice alternative.
By virtue of a lightening quick gastric emptying rate, the amylopectins hit the blood stream quicker and are absorbed as glycogen. Therafter, they work almost like an IV drip, supplying even more energy to the body.
Dan Duchaine himself was onto this as long ago as the early 1990's in his excellent tome, "BodyOpus", stating "The ideal is a highly refined amylopectin preparation, not yet commercially available".
Well, Dan may be gone but he's likely looking down (or is it up?) smiling, knowing that they're now available.
That's what a guy named "Mixelflick" who wrote a book called, "The Blueprint" told me anyway......
I've been using Waxy Maize from Kwick Karb. Though I cannot be certain of their labeling claim : (Kwick Karb's) waxy maize starch is further purified and concentrated until what is left is virtually pure amylopectin. Beware of other products that have a lower content of amylopectin. Pure HPLC Certified and Laboratory Tested.
Hopefully, these statements are true as the value is unbeatable. Definitely an upgrade from the 75 of pure sugar I used during my first bp run.
Avoided posting the link, as I don't want askmass to roll over in his sleep =P
Hopefully, these statements are true as the value is unbeatable. Definitely an upgrade from the 75 of pure sugar I used during my first bp run.
Avoided posting the link, as I don't want askmass to roll over in his sleep =P
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beefcake66
- Posts: 594
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:51 am
A. It's better than "Waxy Maize/cornstarch", yes. That, according to my/our glucometer readings.doolee wrote:I've been using Waxy Maize from Kwick Karb. Though I cannot be certain of their labeling claim : (Kwick Karb's) waxy maize starch is further purified and concentrated until what is left is virtually pure amylopectin. Beware of other products that have a lower content of amylopectin. Pure HPLC Certified and Laboratory Tested.
Hopefully, these statements are true as the value is unbeatable. Definitely an upgrade from the 75 of pure sugar I used during my first bp run.
Avoided posting the link, as I don't want askmass to roll over in his sleep =P
As good as Pure Karbolyn? No.
AskMass is going to obliterate the market when he drops the surprise he's undoubtedly working on...
Who makes Pure Karbolyn again?? Ah yes, that would be Dr. Jeff Guilini, same guy who makes what again? Kre-Alkalyn!
And who was first to bring that particular gem (for many) to market in the United States???
M.A.S.S., that's who -
The formula is good stuff Rob.I been using it the past 4weeks but I like to use more hydro whey then you recommend.About 5-15g more depending on the workout.I was thinking of reducing the kre anabolyn in the shake to 50g and maybe upping the BCAA.What do you think?I use nitrates pre and then take more during the workout, no stims to get the best vasodilation effect possible.
Cheers John, supplementation is definitely one of the things I have a real hand on, it was the first thing I turned to when I wasnt getting results even though it was my diet.But that was 3 years ago, ive learned a lot since then including what works and what doesnt, ecdy is definitely my favorite supplement.Experimenting currently with carb intake as I believe that is the most user dependent macro nutrient by far.Just found out what reps I respond to most hypertrophy wise or around where, which is nice.Took me awhile and funny because I stumbled upon it by accident.askmass wrote:That's something we've pointed out over the years which is lost on so many.DaCookie wrote:...I use nitrates pre and then take more during the workout, no stims to get the best vasodilation effect possible.
Smart supplementing there, Cookie.
Long thread on supplement science indicates that caffeine, though generally vaso-constrictive, is actually a vasodilator during exercise. I believe neuron made the post if anyone is interested.
I'm also loving nitrates btw. Can't wait for purus labs daa+nitrate product. So tired of bulk daa powder on offdays where I can't just mix with preworkout.
I'm also loving nitrates btw. Can't wait for purus labs daa+nitrate product. So tired of bulk daa powder on offdays where I can't just mix with preworkout.
If you like daa try testforce v2doolee wrote:Long thread on supplement science indicates that caffeine, though generally vaso-constrictive, is actually a vasodilator during exercise. I believe neuron made the post if anyone is interested.
I'm also loving nitrates btw. Can't wait for purus labs daa+nitrate product. So tired of bulk daa powder on offdays where I can't just mix with preworkout.
That is interesting on the caffeine, what about 1,3 dimeth?Ill try half a dose and see how it effects pumps and effectivness of the nitrates
Testforce was my first product. Was solid, and I LOVE the taste. But can't afford anything, but bulk for the most part. Just finished my lit-up so now I really have to just deal with the taste.
In regards to caffeine, I always thought the same thing from numerous sources. But I believe neuron and no-hype linked many studies, and explained the mechanisms. 1,3 No one can be sure about! Definitely worth it for the focus, regardless if you like it.
In regards to caffeine, I always thought the same thing from numerous sources. But I believe neuron and no-hype linked many studies, and explained the mechanisms. 1,3 No one can be sure about! Definitely worth it for the focus, regardless if you like it.
Here is the exact post so you don't have to go by faith!
During exercise, there is a localized build-up of metabolic waste products within muscle tissue that ultimately results in intracellular acidosis (which is due to ATP hydrolysis NOT "lactic acid"). Since hydrogen and potassium exist in an electrophysiological axis between the intracellular and extracellular environment, the excess hydrogen ions produced through repeated muscular contraction force potassium into the intracellular space while the H+ ions simultaneously move into the interstitium (*think of it as a H+-K+ antiporter). The resultant hypokalemic state hyperpolarizes the membrane which lowers the resting membrane potential as well as relaxing arterioles due to lower intracellular calcium levels, resulting in vasodilation.
Since caffeine has the capacity to enhance the exodus of calcium from the sarcoplasmic reticulum after an action potential (calcium release from the SR in smooth muscle is calcium dependent), if you remove the initial impetus for calcium release (due to cellular hyperpolarization), you remove the potentiality for smooth muscle contraction (vasoconstriction). Furthermore, since caffeine also acts as a PDEI, the only possible end-state would be vasodilation.
Also by PinchTheBear (simplified explanation and separate mechanism)
PDE5I ---> less enzyme to catalyze cGMP hydrolysis, more vasodilation.
During exercise, there is a localized build-up of metabolic waste products within muscle tissue that ultimately results in intracellular acidosis (which is due to ATP hydrolysis NOT "lactic acid"). Since hydrogen and potassium exist in an electrophysiological axis between the intracellular and extracellular environment, the excess hydrogen ions produced through repeated muscular contraction force potassium into the intracellular space while the H+ ions simultaneously move into the interstitium (*think of it as a H+-K+ antiporter). The resultant hypokalemic state hyperpolarizes the membrane which lowers the resting membrane potential as well as relaxing arterioles due to lower intracellular calcium levels, resulting in vasodilation.
Since caffeine has the capacity to enhance the exodus of calcium from the sarcoplasmic reticulum after an action potential (calcium release from the SR in smooth muscle is calcium dependent), if you remove the initial impetus for calcium release (due to cellular hyperpolarization), you remove the potentiality for smooth muscle contraction (vasoconstriction). Furthermore, since caffeine also acts as a PDEI, the only possible end-state would be vasodilation.
Also by PinchTheBear (simplified explanation and separate mechanism)
PDE5I ---> less enzyme to catalyze cGMP hydrolysis, more vasodilation.