Just wanted to ask if anyone has any experience with this?Do you follow the blueprint and just add it on like a supplement in feast?Do you think the ecdy is beneficial?
Just wondering for knowledge purposes.
Ecdy and AAS
The combination in theory would be most beneficial for a number of reasons. Namely, DNA transcription maximized my AAS and mRNA translation maximized by Ecdy.
mRNA translation is the rate limiting factor in protein synthesis, so in theory you'd get better gains using less total androgens lowering the side effect profile. Speaking of which...
Ecdy/Kre-Anabolyn are superlative protective agents of the liver, kidney and other organs. Full listing of health benefits found here, PDF document at the bottom of this link:
https://ecdybase.org/index.php?&action=ecdyeffects
I don't personally recommend this, but hopefully that gives you some insight into how and why they may be complimentary...
mRNA translation is the rate limiting factor in protein synthesis, so in theory you'd get better gains using less total androgens lowering the side effect profile. Speaking of which...
Ecdy/Kre-Anabolyn are superlative protective agents of the liver, kidney and other organs. Full listing of health benefits found here, PDF document at the bottom of this link:
https://ecdybase.org/index.php?&action=ecdyeffects
I don't personally recommend this, but hopefully that gives you some insight into how and why they may be complimentary...
Yeap I remember reading a post you made on bb similiar to this, but these two work in different environments.Adaptogens work in a catabolic environment hence the 5 day famine, AAS works in an anabolic environment...does this not mean they are a bad stack in context with the blueprint?
Basically what im asking is in theory what would be the best way to stack them, ie not in the blueprint, start AAS before famine...etc
Basically what im asking is in theory what would be the best way to stack them, ie not in the blueprint, start AAS before famine...etc
I honestly don't know.
We can make some educated guesses. For example, we know AAS need some level of insulin/protein to elicit superior gains. You're not getting that in famine.
We also know they allow you to recover much faster from exercise, speed healing and volumize the muscle with more water, glycogen etc.. Of course, you need to take into consideration the negatives, like HPTA suppression, possible liver toxicity if using an oral. Then there are incredibly toxic orals like M1T/Anadrol-50 and... not so liver toxic ones like anavar.
It's a complex game and not worth playing (for me). I WISH I could work with a Dr. on a test replacement/optimization prototocol, but no Dr. here is going to chance that. Not without a medical condition present and they absolutely won't get you on anything approaching supra-physiological dosages. Only test and oxandralone remain here, if I'm not mistaken. Not like you're going to get dbol or abombs from the doc...
We can make some educated guesses. For example, we know AAS need some level of insulin/protein to elicit superior gains. You're not getting that in famine.
We also know they allow you to recover much faster from exercise, speed healing and volumize the muscle with more water, glycogen etc.. Of course, you need to take into consideration the negatives, like HPTA suppression, possible liver toxicity if using an oral. Then there are incredibly toxic orals like M1T/Anadrol-50 and... not so liver toxic ones like anavar.
It's a complex game and not worth playing (for me). I WISH I could work with a Dr. on a test replacement/optimization prototocol, but no Dr. here is going to chance that. Not without a medical condition present and they absolutely won't get you on anything approaching supra-physiological dosages. Only test and oxandralone remain here, if I'm not mistaken. Not like you're going to get dbol or abombs from the doc...
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Big.jazayrli
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- Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 4:02 am
- Location: Yorba Linda, California
i dont believe cookie is at the age to even be considering AAS just yet.
if so i would NOT recconmend the blueprint for it, you could easily integrate a lot of the knowledge Rob has formulated to use AAS though, as rob pointed out about famine... plus a lot of AAS take ~4 weeks to kick in (oils) can jump start with Dbol but thats getting a little tricky.
not to mention it lasts for 10-12 week cycles, imagine this while scaling through the periodic feast though, all of the loading patterns picked because they impart stress, im sure Rob knows of some more full on ones that ecdy recovery alone isn't enough for though!
if so i would NOT recconmend the blueprint for it, you could easily integrate a lot of the knowledge Rob has formulated to use AAS though, as rob pointed out about famine... plus a lot of AAS take ~4 weeks to kick in (oils) can jump start with Dbol but thats getting a little tricky.
not to mention it lasts for 10-12 week cycles, imagine this while scaling through the periodic feast though, all of the loading patterns picked because they impart stress, im sure Rob knows of some more full on ones that ecdy recovery alone isn't enough for though!
Yeah, the real issue though, is this - provided a supra-physiological androgen intake... virtually anything works.
Half assing your training/diet? No problem. Loading/de-loading? Who needs that? Mitigating the ATP dependent pathway to disrupt homeostasis needed to tee up for supercompensation (Famine/Feast)? Not necessary.
It's when these guys come off that they learn the hard way they didn't know it all. When you're on, everyone's coming to you for answers b/c you're growing like a weed. And you have them, of course - b/c you're big as a house and getting bigger every time you visit your gym.
I was talking to Dr. Connelly over the weekend wherein he relayed a great example. Remember Gary Strydom? World Bodybuilding Federation champion back in the day, former IFBB top competitor. Dr. Connelly saw him shortly after coming off. Looked like a 12 year old/completely different person.
There are lessons here. Study these people. Learn from them. Very few that go on come off for any length of time. They become hooked. It becomes a process of self-identity. Big Gary, you know - the guy with the big muscles. Big Gary comes off and he becomes... nobody. Big Gary then loses his self identity and gets back on on the gas right quick.
I'm not parroting the "they're evil/going to kill you nonsense". But do me a favor. Flip through the muscle mags from 10 years ago. I have many of them. Many of these guys are dead (Paul DeMayo, Momo Benaziza etc.), most have vanished. Very few ever made a living doing this. Very few.
They did make Weider rich selling anabolic mega-paks. They were used as tools, then discarded. Dunno. The negatives (for me) outweigh the positives. Especially what available out there today. Watered down PH's that are hella toxic compared to the old 4-diol/Androstene Supreme AskMass sold, which I loved.
My $0.02...
Half assing your training/diet? No problem. Loading/de-loading? Who needs that? Mitigating the ATP dependent pathway to disrupt homeostasis needed to tee up for supercompensation (Famine/Feast)? Not necessary.
It's when these guys come off that they learn the hard way they didn't know it all. When you're on, everyone's coming to you for answers b/c you're growing like a weed. And you have them, of course - b/c you're big as a house and getting bigger every time you visit your gym.
I was talking to Dr. Connelly over the weekend wherein he relayed a great example. Remember Gary Strydom? World Bodybuilding Federation champion back in the day, former IFBB top competitor. Dr. Connelly saw him shortly after coming off. Looked like a 12 year old/completely different person.
There are lessons here. Study these people. Learn from them. Very few that go on come off for any length of time. They become hooked. It becomes a process of self-identity. Big Gary, you know - the guy with the big muscles. Big Gary comes off and he becomes... nobody. Big Gary then loses his self identity and gets back on on the gas right quick.
I'm not parroting the "they're evil/going to kill you nonsense". But do me a favor. Flip through the muscle mags from 10 years ago. I have many of them. Many of these guys are dead (Paul DeMayo, Momo Benaziza etc.), most have vanished. Very few ever made a living doing this. Very few.
They did make Weider rich selling anabolic mega-paks. They were used as tools, then discarded. Dunno. The negatives (for me) outweigh the positives. Especially what available out there today. Watered down PH's that are hella toxic compared to the old 4-diol/Androstene Supreme AskMass sold, which I loved.
My $0.02...
This person doesnt meet the criteria.Your average juice user has used a lot of juice and recent juice but isnt smart, most likely just getting gains from the juice, couldnt tell a placebo from something real unless it was juice and placebo and has no experience with legit ecdy.scump wrote:i dont believe there would be any point in using adaptogens with AAS. ive not heard of anyone on AAS having any trouble recovering.
imo talk to someone who has run a lot of AAS and recent AAS and he will be able to give you better insight to what its like.
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blanchdawg
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- Location: Augusta, Georgia
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blanchdawg
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:21 am
- Location: Augusta, Georgia
With AAS, natural test production shuts down, while with adaptogens you are attempting to boost natural production. I suppose that you could try to boost both natural production and supplement test levels with AAS, but what's the point? If you were trying to keep the natural production up, running Clomid is probably much more effective.
I certainly think it is much more important on AAS to focus your additional supplementation on Protein, BCAA's, and timing of intake, etc.
I certainly think it is much more important on AAS to focus your additional supplementation on Protein, BCAA's, and timing of intake, etc.
sorry what? adaptogens increase the body's ability to cope with stress and promote protein synthesis... i didn't know they boost natural production of testosterone?blanchdawg wrote:With AAS, natural test production shuts down, while with adaptogens you are attempting to boost natural production. I suppose that you could try to boost both natural production and supplement test levels with AAS, but what's the point? If you were trying to keep the natural production up, running Clomid is probably much more effective.
I certainly think it is much more important on AAS to focus your additional supplementation on Protein, BCAA's, and timing of intake, etc.
did i miss something?